Social commentator speaks out
One Man’s Meat
A controversy is brewing and I need your comments for a letter to the meat industry. Would you prefer hormone-free, free-range meat or are concerns about food shortages more important than compassion to animals?
IT’S a complex moral dilemma indeed. A few weeks ago, 35 veterinary scientists put an advertisement in this paper promoting the use of hormones in meat, and giving reasons why hormones were better for livestock, people and the environment. The ad was in response to Coles’ saying it was promoting hormone-free meat.
It was later revealed that the ad was bankrolled by veterinary drug companies including Pfizer and Bayer under the guise of the Animal Health Alliance. Spokesman for the veterinary scientists, Sydney University’s Professor Ian Lean, told me that there was no conflict of interest – the issue was so important that the scientists needed the muscle of drug companies to fund their campaign.
The verdict is out on this in medical circles. HGP is banned in Europe. But claims that current practices are good for animals are patently ludicrous. Animals such as sows are kept in crates, separated from their young. They can’t move to the right or left for their whole lives, which is why they need growth hormones. They grieve continually. Professor Clive Phillips at the University of Queensland says the suffering of hormone-fed cattle is acute: animals become overheated; they live in discomfort.
The ethics of this have not gone unnoticed by the board of Coles and now Woolworths who can see the cruelty and know that consumers no longer want to support inhumane practices. Meanwhile, adrenalin from fear and misery permeates the flesh we eat. One of the reasons pigs in particular are kept in tiny crates, claims Lean, is because they roll on their young and thus eradicate our food supply. “What mother would not undergo a little discomfort to ensure that more of her children survived?”
| Print article | This entry was posted by Ruth Ostrow on April 23, 2011 at 12:40 am, and is filed under All Posts, Animal Welfare, Weekend Australian Columns. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback from your own site. |








about 11 months ago
I would support any retailer in their efforts to minimise cruelty in food production, and unnecessary food additives. However I think Coles’ motivation is probably more concerned with the way consumers are making their choices and the effects on their profits.
about 11 months ago
I think animal ‘husbandry’ no longer exists in general and with these cruel practices (crating)in particular. Farming should be a proper relationship between the animal and farmer, whereby the farmer is responsible for the animals’ care because the farmer has taken away the animal’s ability to care for itself as it would in the wild. (That includes breeding so that the animal is bigger, fatter etc and therefore more prone to squash the young in a confined space.).
How can extra hormones be good for anyone, in any stage of the foodchain? The comment by Lean (“What mother would not undergo a little discomfort to ensure more of her children survived?) is cynical beyond belief! Does he really believe that is an argument???
about 11 months ago
I cant believe the bull said above about the drug companies.. of course they are going to fund the research.. they want to prove whether the drugs they sell are ok or not.. there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Are you suggesting that the vets are going to produce false evidence supporting the growth hormones? of course not! people who are employed at these drug companies arent just random people out for a buck.. they have animal degree backgrounds and want what is right for the animal just like everyone else. Coles just goes by what the status quo is .. in order for people to buy their food. Its great that they listen to the publics concerns about meat.. but its research like the studies done by the 35 vets that aids the publics understanding of the real facts. using hormones is much better for the already stressed environment..and the levels that are used do not effect humans as little if any is detected in the meat (contrary to some media reports) there are strict rules about the timing and doses that can be used. . and the meat from this is leaner as well. . which is healthier for the consumer.. so really the concern shouldnt be aimed towards the environment or the quality of meat, or the safety for people but the effects it has on the cows.
and the pig farrowing thing is a completely unrelated matter as far as im concerned.. we all know its horrible but you know whats more horrible ? seeing a whole litter of squashed piglets.. and scientists (such as these 35 vets) are conducting MANY studies to try and come up with a better way to contain the sow and piggies to maximise animal welfare. Its not a simple solution, and i bet most of the whining people out there still eat ham. .
It drives me crazy when people constantly blame our struggling farmers and the vets and animal scientists that obviously care about animals and are way more educated than we are and put in endless effort towards animal welfare. What do you want, the farmers to be driven out of jobs? what will you eat then? Until we find a better solution or we all grow our own meat practices such as using farrowing crates are going to have to do.. and if we all start going veg. we will have even more problems .. so dont think thats helping… we have way to large of a population for us NOT to grow meat using hormones and using farrowing crates.. and our poor farmers are pushed further and further towards their limits..
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth
I think it’s fantastic that this issue is being publicised now after the previous success of the free-range chicken and egg debates. My family have long gone out of our way to find free-range, hormone free meat and eggs wherever we are living, and are always willing to pay more for these.
It’s wonderful that a big chain supermarket is jumping on board with this, however, I’ll be interested to see if their free-range and hormone free meats are certified such by Australian standards or if it’ll just be labelling to sell more product. In my experience, many people are not aware that unless a product is certified there is a good chance it’s not what it claims to be (free-range, organic, etc.). When I first started looking into organic products I found many are not certified at all but just slap the word ‘organic’ on the label and charge twice the price of the regular product.
Good on Coles for being smart enough to read this growing ethically-concious market, however, when Coles introduce hormone free or free-range meat to their fridges I will still make the slightly longer trip to the nearest family owned certified free-range butcher where I get great service AND can support a local business, which supports my community. Coles is still after all just out to make money money money.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth
As a small time primary producer of beef cattle I would like to point out that the EU bans any meat which has had hormones added to their diet. It is interesting that the same rule doesn’t apply to Australian markets.
If a producer doesn’t know whether his/her beef is going for domestic consumption or for export, (and most don’t), then he/she does not use hormones in their production practice, as this would limit their market potential.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth
I am furious that Coles are pretending to be concerned about the welfare of sows in Australia. When asked about all the imported pork and ham, their comment was something like ‘we cannot control what goes on in other countries”. They are making one set of rules for Aussie farmers and another set for the rest of the world. No wonder our farmers are losing their viability.
about 1 year ago
Some years ago i did an agricultural degree and a studyof a piggery was a part of this. Sow pens are very disturbing, especially what we know regarding pigs’ intelligence. i was also struck by the similarity of the behaviour of the younger pigs (under 1 yr) to puppies. I remember the pig farmer used to let all the piglets out of their pen and let them run up and down the long shed aisle. Their behaviour was just like watching puppies as they gambolled and played with each other, squealing with delight. I personally made the decison a long time ago based on my agricultural experiences that i want to see the lot of all production animals improved, most especially and urgently those farmed intensively so the practices are humane as possible. i will happily pay more for my meat for this outcome (and do). No question.
about 1 year ago
Ruth: Anything at all you publish which may instigate
some positive thinking about how we abuse animals,mostly without being aware of it, is very welcome in my opinion. People have no idea of animal behaviour – just because it is often different to ours.
We have hunger, jealousy, fear, love and some of us, a need to protect. So do other animals. I have heard just recently that apart from their early morning exercise some race horses never see the light of day – stuck in their stables! I don’t eat them.
Love, and congratulations on being a beautiful person.
Bette Tanava
about 1 year ago
1. It’s a decent human being who cares about the well-being of the animals we farm. 2. Animals deserve to be drug-free and enjoy having all their needs met. 3.Most of us could eat less meat. 4.We’d probably be healthier if we did.
about 1 year ago
Not much to add without repeating what the vast majority have said. My personal view is that we should all eat much less meat (say once a week) and try to ensure as best we can that it has been raised, treated and killed with respect. This means paying more (money) and spending more time sourcing produce which is free range and most certainly hormone free.
about 1 year ago
Sometimes Melinda, it is hard to see the progress that is slowly being made. Jamie Oliver is on the right track starting with the kids. What he did with the goat was an example of training as opposed to education. People were involved and their behaviour was challenged. That is why he got such a strong reaction but it had impact and many will have been changed by the event. (Ruth also has expressed how she was affected by her first-hand experience in Asia.)
But, dispiriting as it sounds, significant change will probably take a generation- at least. All great change takes time. What we can and should do is keep the ball rolling.
ps I include your “cruel end” as part of my “in between”.
about 1 year ago
Hey readers, I have just introduced a new topic on this page, animal land rights being mooted by a leading Australian academic. Any comments?
about 1 year ago
The reason I have been purchasing certified organic meat as well as GM-free ‘free-range’ chickens for the last 20 years is to avoid:
+ growth hormones
+ pesticide/herbicide sprayed feed
+ and the latest technological ‘fix’ genetically engineered organisms (which are fed to ALL intensively farmed animals, unless otherwise stated).
Animals from certified organic and gm-free ‘free-range’ farms by definition have a better quality of life.
about 1 year ago
Thanks Ruth, Coles and the bunch of scientists… and so many valid points of view ranging from human health to animal ethics that need to be amalgamated. Naturally a few confusing ones too which distract from the issue at hand. However, you have helped stir up a hornets nest which in the long term should be for the good.
If this is a debate about ethics then a few basic starting points would be helpful. Long ago i came to the realisation that everything that lives will die, its what happens in-between that we need to concern ourselves with. I also accept that humans are meat eating omnivores and that like all living creatures, we must kill to live. (Not that I am saying that all species are equal, but imagine the insects that would need to die if we all became vegetarian:-).
However, it is the quality of the lives of animals reliant on our care, used for our benefit and proven to be capable of feeling and suffering that is up for discussion. With most of the world’s 6 billion people hell-bent on conspicuous consumption these animals need our help.
No ethical person would deny a principle which requires us to balance our culinary pleasure against the suffering it causes. As one writer commented, limiting our meat consumption to a set number of portions a week would be a good strategy. Knowing this, all the various purveyors of meat and animal products do their best to isolate us, the consumer, from emotive connections including the animal’s predicament. (Perhaps like cigarette packaging we should legislate for honesty in advertising and packaging and even promote open farms and abbattoirs?)
I have no doubt Coles are more interested in marketing than animal welfare so it is the moral responsibility of animal product consumers to make themselves aware of the issues and develop an informed opinion by reading widely and shop accordingly. I would prefer change to be based on ethical standards and scientific evidence, however, given their reliance on continuing industry funding I do not expect to get unbiased opinions from funded research scientists.
about 1 year ago
Rob I agree with the content of your post but there are a lot of people who don’t care about animal welfare or are able to submerge their concerns on the way to their next burger. Are these peolpe unethical or do they just have a different ethics base?
It is ‘the in between that matters’ and also the end must be least cruel possible.
The hypocrisy of the furore when Jamie Oliver slit a goats throat prior to cooking it is testament to the head in the sand attitude of consumers. I am a vegetarian but thought Ok that’s where meat comes from get with it meat eaters. This is how it is done. This is your food source. People don’t want to see it. I admired him for doing it.
The aim must be to treat and harvest all animals and their produce humanely.
Can we rely on the majority of consumers to ingest education and change eating practices. Sadly I think not although I may be pilloried as condescending but just witness the many ways we destroy our own health with what society offers up dspite unrelenting education.
As a community we wont even unite and refuse to buy $1 milk. There are those who buy it from financial desperation and those who buy it because they love a bargain and now there are those who buy it because anything else on the shelf is minimal or close to use by date. A win for Coles. Most people understand the long term repercussions of cheap milk but they want it now regardless.
To change the way we treat animals we have to get the numbers required to exert serious influence trhough energetic lobbying. Will all the relevant groups unite to do this or does each have their own discrete territorial power base? If influence is gained it will have to be forced on the greater populace because their will be a financial impost from humanely produced animal product. The paradoxical imposition of a dictatorial humaneness wll be the only way forward for animal welfare.
Albert Schweitzer (1950′s Nobel Prize winner – yes the 50′s so excuse him the ‘man’ references I’m sure he means us too girls/women/ladies and others)
“The thinking man must oppose all cruel customs no matter how deeply rooted in tradition and surrounded by a halo. When we have a choice, we must avoid bringing torment and injury into the life of another, even the lowliest creature; to do so is to renounce our manhood and shoulder a guilt which nothing justifies.”
As Albert suggests religious customs would have to be taken on. Live export …………….. it goes on.
Melinda
about 1 year ago
Toby and Annie. Picture them. Two healthy Dalmatians.
Bertie County (North Carolina) Animal Control Officer Barry Anderson testified (25/1/07) two Dalmatians named Toby and Annie — dogs he described as “just healthy, playful, and well-fed” — were handed over to
PETA
This is the official trial record of two PETA employees who claimed animals from shelters, euthanased them and them dropped them in dumpsters.
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/Trial_Day4.cfm
“They came to the shelter to take all the dogs that were not being quarantined or on hold for any reason and take them back to Virginia. My understanding was that if it’s an animal that’s good or adoptable, you try to find homes for them. especially the two Dalmatians that were running around. And I asked her [Hinkle] if she thinks that those two dogs were adoptable. And she said yes, you know, she thought that they shouldn’t have a problem at all finding homes for those Dalmatians.”
Ahoskie, NC newspaper editor Cal Bryant reported this morning (in the Roanoke-Chowan News-Herald) that unnamed “PETA officials attending the trial” now acknowledge Hinkle killed animals from Anderson’s shelter — including those two Dalmatians — while the PETA van was still in the parking lot. Presumably, this was just minutes after Hinkle assured Anderson that the dogs were adoptable.
about 1 year ago
Hi all, Thursday morning and we’re off to a fiery start. I am out for a couple of hours but please post and I will moderate when I get home. Ruth
about 1 year ago
Sorry, Ruth. I didn’t really intend to divert the conversation into this area and definitely did not set out to distress you, but felt that comments such as ‘outrageous’, ‘disgusting’ and ‘sad’ in the forum at least needed to be responded to with what are routinely discussed arguments in mainstream moral philosophy, not necessarily the domain of ‘fundamentalist extremists’. I realise that there are many other aspects to consider within the issues which you courageously raised in your column and really had no thoughts of continuing further this line of discussion.
about 1 year ago
Thanks Anita and I did appreciate where you were coming from. But I live with the Holocaust every day, in reality not moral theory. And with that declared sensitivity am able to bring the conversation back in line with the more important aspect of understanding what people are feeling and why, so we can put together some sort of coherent blog post for Coles, scientists farmers and regulators to read and make decisions that are hopefully kinder and more compassionate.
about 1 year ago
Guys can we not debate whether slaughter houses can or can’t be compared to Auschwitz. I am finding it very distressing. I ask respectfully that we don’t go there on this site. Thank you. G’Night all and thanks for your comments. Back to moderate tomorrow, late morning.
about 1 year ago
Rick,and also Jane, your harsh reactions to Nikki’s Fuda’s comments demonstrate just how unwilling people are to face the moral heart of this issue. The question is; in what ways are we entitled to exploit others simply because they are members of a different race or species? It is this belief in entitlement, and then the social justification of lesser status, that through history has resulted in exploitation and often extermination on the basis of race, or gender or other perceived differences, such as occurred during the Holocaust of World War 2. Nikki’s thoughts are not without precedent. Nobel Prize (1978) winning author, Polish Jewish American, Isaac Bashevis Singer in his writings raised this very issue. In The Letter Writer, he wrote “In relation to [animals], all people are Nazis; for the animals, it is an eternal Treblinka”. The suffering of animals raised for food in factory farms and killed in the slaughterhouses is no secret. It is beyond doubt that the animals used for food production suffer, along with the denial during their lives of their intelligent responses, feelings and nurturing instincts. So the moral question for us is; to what extent do I want to be responsible for, and participate in, these animals suffering simply on the basis of being partial to the taste of a particular food. It appears from comments on this forum that many, myself included, would choose not to.
about 1 year ago
I have been a lacto ovo vegetarian for 40 years from age 11. I grew up on a free range farm and even there saw cruelty which led me to stop eating meat but the day to day existence of animals was a generally happy enough affair. The sow had a sty and a paddock. She got to suckle her squealing little piglets naturally. I got to nurse her squealing, squirmy progeny and incur her snorting ire. The bores roamed the back paddocks and foraged and looked at you menacingly as you fed them from the back of the sled. The chickens had a paddock and shelter. The cows were hand milked and roamed freely through the day and lined up for milking of their own accord when their udders were heavy. I was disheartened by their separation from their calves and ensuing grief but overall they seemed contented.
Factory farming practices now are horrific and holocaust like in their application. I have no problem with people eating meat (well maybe a little bit but I am a realist), but animals must be tended with respect and kindness and harvested in the least cruel possible manner.
Please think about chickens as well as pigs Ruth and think about everything you eat including your favourite treats which may contain caged eggs. The bacon at your favourite cafe etc. Chickens are surprisingly smart, social animals. Piggies wag their tails like a dog when you greet them. They; like other animals display sentient qualities and are deserving of more than a life of immobile, physically painful, emotionally crippling imprisonment.
I find Coles and Woolworths to be hypocrites over pig meat. Unless we are totally nationalist about our view of cruelty to animals what about the pigs overseas?? They are not banning caged imported pork products!! This means that Australian producers are at a price point disadvantage and people who don’t care about animal welfare will just buy the cheapest. Many people who do care will have only noted the superficial aspects of the story and think all the pork is free range.
Our laws and society in general are hypocritical too. I have two pugs – (dogs). If I kept them in a cage all their lives then harvested and ate them I would be charged and most probably jailed after having my picture bandied all over the internet. I would probably have eggs thrown at me (hopefully free range) as I entered court. Why can we do this to pigs and chickens? Oh right because there is money in it.
I believe we can all afford to eat free range products from a source tended humanely and despatched in the least cruel manner. We just need to eat less of these products and waste less. Have some lentils and rice and chick peas and grow a few veggies in your window box, in a planter on your patio or in your yard if you have one. Australia has high rates of obesity, heart disease, diabetes. Eating healthily and humanely could counteract the diet induced aspects of these conditions.
Sometimes I can’t sleep at night thinking of caged animals. Most meat eaters would not like to visit an abatoir or witness the vicious conditions of caged animals or even shoot a kangaroo. I say better to be the kangaroo who lived a free life up until the moment of death than the factory farmed animals held captive to our voracious appetite for vast supplies of cheap meat and eggs.
Please don’t praise Coles or Woolworths for this free range pig meat exercise in cynicism . Especially in view of Coles $1 milk fiasco which can only end badly for milk producing animals. We must temper our consumption and temper the arrogance that leaves us feeling unassailed at the top of the food chain. This arrogance drives us to streamline meat, milk and egg production without thought of physical, emotional or social comfort to the animals we harvest.
Melinda Johnstone
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth, recently I had the great privelege of sharing a beef meal with some Masai tribes people in the Serengeti region of Tanzania. The care they lavish on their animals is extraordinary. Weak calves, lambs and kids share the warmest room of their dung-mud huts with their children. Their warriors herd them daily to protect them from lions and other predators. They overnight in protective kralls.
The Masai have a symbiotic relationship with their livestock. They need each other to survive the harsh realities of the vast African savannah. The Masai do not have the “ethical” or nutritional luxury of vegeterianism and I don’t believe any well healed Australian vego or vegan has any right to pass judgement on their culture and dietary choices.
Relaxed in the knowledge that herbivores evolved to eat grass and man evolved as an omnivore, I will be trucking 46 prime cattle to the abattoirs tomorrow.
They are grass finished and growth rate enhanced with HGP’s. They have grown 15% fater and eaten 10-15% less grass. They have leaner carcasses and produced less methane as a result of HGPs.
I will rest easy tonight in the knowledge that I have treated these animals well all their lives and assisted them in their conversion of grass { the world’s most abundant crop}. They will play a vital role in feeding an increasingly hungry world
about 1 year ago
I note an error in my previous post. It should read grown 15% faster-not fater
about 1 year ago
Dubious claim that we are omnivores. Sorry my research has shown that we come from berry and fruit eaters. I live happily without meat. Occasionally a bit of fish. Meat takes 72 hours for the body to digest properly. Digesting it takes a huge proportion of our energy. It sits in our digestive tracts rotting. That’s not how we were evolved to live.
about 1 year ago
Oh come on Ruth just google up ” are humans omnivores” and I think you will find plenty of info there.
Lee Mc Nicholl ,you won’t have Coles buying your cattle tomorrow but good luck with them.
about 1 year ago
Studied nutrition for several years, was even a consultant for a while on using food as medicine. Know my stuff. Thanks for the patronising tip though. Journalists of 30 years standing love it when readers try to tell them how to do their research. The Australian keeps me on as a senior journalist and Walkley Award runner up because I am incompetent at my job ….?
about 1 year ago
Yeah , sorry about that , knew I shouldn’t have written that when I pressed submit. Know when I am defeated although I have studied nutrition but not formally.
I did ask you earlier where I could find studies or research written by Prof Clive Phillips that showed evidence of this so called acute suffering and discomfort of HGP treated cattle.
Can you please tell me where.
about 1 year ago
Brian Sherman of Voiceless has the material. I was quoting his letter which is on this site below Prof Lean’s open letter to him
about 1 year ago
Tony. thanks for your support. I don’t lower myself to trade with hypercritical unscientific (…edited out) like Coles.
Our family will never spend another cent at Coles after what their Pommy bosses have done to bust Aussie dairy farmers with $1/litre milk.
Fortunately the vast majority of Aussie consumers are rational and fair minded enough to see through Coles’s short term unprincipled attempt to increase market share and their own grubby bottom line at the expense of Aussie farmers
about 1 year ago
HI Ruth, more than happy to trot out plenty of well credentialed research supporting that our earliest ancestors from Africa’s Rift Valley were omnivores.
However I would like to respond to your scientific research that hominids began as berry and fruit eaters. Can you refer me to your sources?
I doubt if many Aussie POWs in Japanese concentration camps emerged as life long vegetarians. They went to extraordinary lenghts to ingest animal protein eating rodents, reptiles and insects. Many primitive jungle based tribes even today desperately hunt scarce game to balance their protein deficient diets.
Rapidly diminishing high quality agricultural land virtually makes it impossible to feed the projected 9 Billion population on vegetable protein alone. Grass grows protein through herbivores on non arable land. Animal protein is vital to prevent mass hunger on a global scale in the near future
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth, Sorry, typo in my last post, should read” logging and conservation” as per correct version below, if not too much trouble could you post this instead?:
From Lean’s letter: “As scientists…we have committed our lives to…improve the wellbeing of animals and those that care for them.”
This sounds a little like the various Dept’s of Forestries who throughout the 60′s, 70′s, 80′s and into the 90′s had responsibility for logging AND conservation…until we woke up one day about 20 years ago and started wondering where all the trees went.
about 1 year ago
Now I’ve heard it all! Lean & Co’s open letter (kindly transcribed by Jane) is full of the same emotive language and unsupported claims which many of the producers on this blog rile against. It uses as a tool in its argument words such as “ethical” in relation to conventional production. As many farmers have stated here ethics and animal welfare are two separate arguments, with ethics being the less clear.
‘Ethical’ is a highly subjective term and could be used far more appropriately AGAINST Lean and Co’s case rather than for it.
The ethics of conventional production are far reaching from the treatment of the animal, what its fed and given, and the effect on the people who in turn eat it.
Going on to claim that Coles’ “no added hormone” labelling is RISKING the future of conventional practices is a load of old cods! He boldly draws a long long bow to state that Coles’ “no added hormone” label is immorally robbing a future (overpopulated) world of ‘sustainable’ food production because it will lead to the demise of conventional farming. In fact, it is the lack of comprehensive labelling standards that are robbing the “vast majority of Australians” of choice.
There is a word for Lean’s use of language in this way – I forget what it is now – but: “ethical”, “sustainable”, “moral”, “safe” are words that have belonged to the organic movement as it differentiates itself with consumers. By cleverly using them in his trumped up piece is reducing this group of scientists to the same level as Coles’ in their un-supported “no added hormones” statement. What a joke!
I am so glad you raised this Ruth. These rats and cockroaches need to have a light shone on them…hows that for emotive language
Bring on labelling standards and regulations on the industry that don’t take the public for ignorant fools!
about 1 year ago
I know the farming community need to make a living but it still saddens me to read so many people comming out in support of these cruel practises. I am sure the day will come when we will look back in horror at intensive farming and wonder how we let it happen for so long. I just hope that day isn’t too far away.
about 1 year ago
Ruth,
You wrote above that you would moderate offensive material yet this is still there:
We ended black slavery, we have given women the vote, we stoped the apartheid but Hitler, Pol Pott and Stalin are saints compared to the actions and habits of the ‘good’ citizens of this country and indeed planet earth.
In the same piece by the same author there is still the reference to Hitler and comparing his actions to those of farmers.
Not good.
about 1 year ago
Hard to catch them all, answered two today. Have another life, mother, full time uni student, full time journalist and owner of two demanding cats. Moderating is a BIG job. Keep it going Roger
and everyone. I love doing it, just can’t get every nuance. By the way Roger I said obscene or defamatory not offensive. I am a freedom speech advocate – Voltaire, “I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it”
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth,
This is off topic. Delighted that you share your life with two cats. But I doubt that you “own” them; nobody owns cats; it’s rather the other way ’round.
Ted
about 1 year ago
Yes yes, indeed. Dogs have masters, cats have servants.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, you wrote: I am a freedom speech advocate – Voltaire, “I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it”
Wrong, I’m sorry to tell you. The actual quote was, ‘I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.’
Attribute to Voltaire, the words are in fact S.G. Tallentyre’s summary of his attitude towards Helvetius following the burning of the latter’s De l’esprit in 1759; in ‘The Friends of Voltaire 1907) p. 199
Oxford Dictionary of Quotations p. 717
about 1 year ago
Hi Roger, please post on my story about animal land rights above, I value your opinion and your colleagues at Just Ground, and thanks for this
about 1 year ago
Big apologies to all that I didn’t accept your posts till now. I just got to read them all and get with the latest debate since Prof Lean, and Brian Sherman’s open letters to each other. I have been so tied up here moderating the last few days I needed a break from the computer. Had a work out at the gym! So back now to take comments and here passion and facts. And yes, I am publishing anything that isn’t obscene even if it offends me, like equating abattoirs to Auschwitz. Having lived with a man who’s entire family was wiped out in the Holocaust including all his mother’s five sisters and their little children who went to the gas chambers, I think that these sorts of comparisons are very ignorant and unhelpful, even though I know we all feel strongly on animal rights. I also wonder about the person who wrote that PETA kills animals (in the comments re the Prof Lean open letter which lives above this article). What?!? I must have a closer read of that one, but at this stage my initial response is one of skepticism at the author’s claims. Let’s see where those claims come from.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, Penn & Teller, did a show on Peta and how they were killing animals (its on youtube) whilst simultaneously picketing and protesting outside a “County” animal shelter for unwanted animals.
Peta object to animals being used for any purpose from food to pets, guide dogs and even bees.
A total alienated disconnect that would amuse any tribal group on the planet.
If it’s not a manifestation of self loathing and misanthropy, I don’t know what is.
Their sub conscious credo is “I am not worth to have any animal die to feed me nor exist to help me.”
If a Lion’s had such low self esteem to view every thing as equal – they would be extinct.
about 1 year ago
Thanks Peter, I still find that hard to believe but will investigate myself. I also don’t like the idea of any animal being on the planet to serve me. Sorry. It’s just how i feel. Does it mean I don’t wear leather? No, and I eat fish. So yes, I am hypocritical but I still don’t believe any animal should die or suffer on my behalf and would gladly not wear leather if there was a viable alternative. I try to live an ethical compassionate life, I fail, I try again, I live by Harm None. It’s better than not trying at all.
about 1 year ago
Peta runs “animal shelters” in the US for dogs and cats. Some of the states they operate in require the publication of statistics for reclaimed, rehomed or euthanised. This information revealed a euthanasia rate of something like 98% in Peta run shelters. (I don’t remember the exact figure, but google and you will find it.
about 1 year ago
How sad
about 1 year ago
Reality before Ideology. Really, Professor Lean?
Veterinary Scientists are in the unique position of being able to offer expert advice to influence animal welfare legislation.
Should we trust that they will promote the interests of sows above that of ‘production efficiency’ and industry profitability?
Will more research funding result in any real improvement to farmed pigs’ welfare?
How much more time is required for farmers to ‘phase out’ intensive farming techniques?
We have seen such stalling tactics in the Review of the Code for the Protection of Animals (Pigs) 2006.
Really, were ‘confinement systems developed to improve the health of sows and piglets’?
Confinement makes it possible for farmers to produce more product with less staff and so bring down costs, which may be a good thing if it did not have the side effect of undeniably adverse effects on pig welfare.
It resulted in tooth clipping and tail docking to stop pigs biting each others’ tails in frustration.
It resulted in sow stalls to stop gestating sows aborting fetuses in their competition with each other for space.
It resulted in the removal of litter for bedding and bare concrete floors for ease of cleaning.
It resulted in mother sows rolling on their piglets, which in turn resulted in farrowing crates.
It resulted in the concentrations of pig effluent to be collected in pits, risking seepage into ground water.
“Improvements in animal environment, health and nutrition’. Really?
How can the confinement of animals and the breeding and feeding of animals be regarded as ‘improvements’ when such abuses to pigs have resulted from confinement?
When many broiler chickens cannot support their own weight?
When caged egg producing chickens can be kept in an A4-sized cage?
Does the Environment, and hence do people, benefit from the ever increasing demand for animal products and scientists attempts to come up with technologies to satisfy that demand?
In what way does the Professor Beddington report on Global Food and Farming Futures: the case for urgent action promote ‘technologies such as hormonal growth promotants’?
A global food shortage may well be looming but this will only be hastened by the promotion of animals as food. As a food source animals are inefficient, unsustainable and environmentally damaging.
Perhaps consumers are prepared to eat less animal products and pay more for produce from farmers who treat their animals with respect and offer them their natural behaviours. Really!
about 1 year ago
Corporitisation of foods! Practices often supported by spin rather than rounded analyses including consideration of the legitimate views of those in communities.
The issue of looming food shortages concerns plant and animal production on land, waterways and seas and a multitude of sustainability issues. In my view its a pretty big stretch to suggest growth hormone in pigs will do much to increase food supplies. On the other hand, the wellbeing of stock is important not only for sound managment of production increases but to also address changing consumer sentiment.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, apologies if you have posted this somewhere and I’ve not seen it. But I thought that since these 35 scientists are being denigrated by you and some of the commenters on your site, they deserve to at least have their letter posted here in its entirety. It has taken me awhile to get it into text. I was hoping you could have saved me the many hours….
Open letter from Concerned Scientists
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
ENSURING ENVIRONMENTALLY SUSTAINABLE AND ETHICAL FOOD PRODUCTION
FOR THE WORLD’S GROWING POPULATION
Recent announcements by Coles supermarkets potentially threaten the sustainable and ethical production of food by Australian farmers.
These policies, detailed in media releases including one entitled ‘Australian Supermarket First: NoAdded Hormone Beef!’ relate to the use of growth promotants (HGPs) in cattle. Another release announces a policy to phase out pork produced using gestation crates. Coles has also significantly reduced its home-brand milk prices.
These announcements by Coles appear to appeal to the emotions of everyday consumers, but do not provide the scientific context of modern farming. Coles’ policies may restrict the way Australian farmers can produce food for sale in Coles’ stores, and the buying power of Coles can mean that a decision to not accept food produced by a particular method may stop that mode of production.
The Coles’ announcements might convey the impression to consumers that production using these methods results in unsatisfactory quality beef and unethically produced pork. We reject any such implicit understanding. We believe that these announcements could force farmers to use a particular mode of production and may ultimately be counter-productive.
We are a group of Australian scientists who believe that these and other changes proposed by activists and those seeking to take market positions, such as Coles, will damage the security and efficiency of Australian food production. These decisions may harm the environment and animals, and limit consumers’ access to safe affordable food. Further, it should be noted that the statements made by Coles have been publicly rebutted by a senior scientist from CSIRO1 and MLA2 whose studies were cited by Coles in support of the HGP ban. There are many factors that affect tenderness of beef and HGP use is only one of these.
As scientists working in the fields of livestock health, welfare and production we have committed our lives to providing the means to improve the wellbeing of animals and those that care for them.
Australia has a proud history of agricultural production supported by strong regulatory, veterinary and food safety authorities who ensure the safety of our food, the protection of our environment and the welfare of the animals on our farms. Australia exports food around the world and meets the most rigorous global standards for food quality. Australian produced food has never been safer for consumers.
We support methods of production that are ethical, environmentally sustainable, safe for workers, safe for consumers and favour animal well-being. On balance, we consider the methods of production being targeted by Coles meet these criteria. These practices have been reviewed and accepted by the relevant regulatory bodies in Australia charged with considering the welfare and safety of humans and animals. These are also environmentally-friendly approaches to production.
As a consequence of Coles’ position, the choices available to Australian consumers to buy safe affordable food that is produced using conventional food production systems may be restricted.
The choice to purchase food types like organic and specialist ranges should be available to consumers, but this should not be at the expense of the right of the vast majority of Australians to choose safe and affordable conventionally produced food. We believe that the choices of all can be accommodated, but that we must not allow the choice of many to be placed at risk to meet the preferences of some.
In the next 50 years, the world will need to double food production to feed the demands of a rapidly growing human population. This food must be produced using the same amount of land but with less water, fertilizer and waste production. It must be achieved with enhanced animal wellbeing. Removing the choice of producers to use efficient production systems will result in greater greenhouse gas emission and use of increasingly limited land and water resources.
Reducing our ability to sustainably feed the world to prioritise the food choices of those fortunate enough to be able to afford such choice, is a questionable moral position. While we strongly support the right of consumers to understand how their food is produced, in order for our farmers to continue to ensure an abundant supply of food, they need to be free to use production tools that are profitable, ethical, and sustainable. The food produced must be safe and nutritious.
Farmers and their scientific advisors are the experts in agricultural production. They, and our consumers and regulators – not supermarket chains – should be making the decisions on the best way to produce high quality food under the widely varied conditions that make up our agricultural systems.
Applying these restrictions to Australian farmers will increase costs making them less able to compete with overseas farmers, many of whom are subsidised by their governments. Losing Australian farmers and food production infrastructure threatens the security and sovereignty of Australian food production.
It is our view that these decisions of Coles are bad for the environment, bad for people and bad for animals.
________________________________________
• Peter Alexander BVSc, MACVScPast President Australian Cattle Veterinarians
• Emeritus Professor of Animal Science E. Frank Annison AM, BSc, PhD (Lond), DSc, FRIC University of Sydney
• Robert Bonanno BVSc Hons President Australian Cattle Veterinarians
• Emeritus Professor Alan Bell BRurSc (Hons), PhD (Glasgow)
• Dr Elizabeth Bramley BSc (Hons), BVMS, PhD (Syd) School of Veterinary and Biomedical Sciences Murdoch University
• Professor Wayne L. BrydenBRurSc (NE), Dip Ed (NE), MRurSc (NE), PhD (Syd), FAIAST Professor of Animal Science University of Queensland
• Dr PietroCeliDMV (Bari, Italy) PhD (WA)
• Professor Mingan Choct BSc, MSc (UNSW), PhD (Syd) University of New England
• Michelle Cotton BVSc, BVSCVet, MVPHMt, MACVSc
• Professor Nick Costa BAgSc (Hons), PhD (Adelaide) Chair in Sustainable Agriculture School of Environmental ScienceMurdoch University
• Adjunct Professor Ross Cutler BVSc (Melb), PhD (Minnesota)
• Dr Haydn Lloyd Davies PhD, B.Sc. (Hons), FAIAST, FASAP.Foundation Professor of Pastoral Science University of NSW (retired)
• Professor Frank R. DunsheaPhD, FNSA, RAnNutr. Head of Department of Agriculture and Food Systems University of Melbourne
• Professor David Emery BSc(Vet), DVSc (Syd) Faculty of Veterinary Science University of Sydney
• Professor Keith EntwistleAM, BVSc, PhD, FASAP, QDAH
• Professor Lee A Fitzpatrick BVSc, PhD, MACVSc, GCertEd,
• Emeritus Professor David Fraser BVSc (Hons), PhD (Cambridge) Faculty of Veterinary Science University of Sydney
• Associate Professor Sergio (Yani) Garcia Agr. Eng (B.Ag.Sc), MSc (Argentina), PhD (Massey)
• Dr Peter HoldsworthAM, BSc (Hons), PhD (Qld), FAICD Chief Executive Officer, Animal Health Alliance (Australia) Ltd Past President, Australia Society for Parasitology
• Associate Professor John House BSc, BVMS, PhD (California), Dip ACVIM Director Livestock Veterinary Teaching and Research Unit University of Sydney
• Dr Roy C. KellawayBSc(Hort) (London), PhD (NE) DTA, FAIAST
• Associate Professor Ken Jacobs BVSc, MVSc (Saskatoon)
• Dr Leigh Ladd BVBiol (Qld), BVSc (Qld), PhD (Syd), MACVSc, MAIBiol, MIBiol, CBiol
• Adjunct Professor Ian Lean BVSc PhD (California), MACVScPast President Australian Cattle Veterinarians, Gilruth Medallist
• Graham Lean BVSc, MAAAC
• Associate Professor Brian LeuryBAgrSc. (Hons), PhD (La Trobe) Reader in Animal Science The University of Melbourne
• Professor Michael R McGowan BVSc, MVSc, PhD (Syd), DipECAR
• Professor KL ‘Jock’ Macmillan PhD, DSc, FRSNZ
• Professor Robert Mulley BA, MScAg, PhD (Syd)
• Associate Professor Dr Scott Norman BVSc (UQ), PhD (UQ), Diplomate ACT
• David PetersenBSc, BVMS Past President Australian Cattle Veterinarians
• Dr Robert van Barneveld BAgrSc. (Hons), PhD, RAnNutr, FAICD
• Bruce Watt BVSc, MS, MACVSc
• Hadley WillsallenBVSc, MACVSc
• Professor Peter Wynn BRurSc (UNE), DipEd, MRurSc, PhD (Syd)
1. Professor Alan Bell on ‘A Current Affair’ Channel 9.
2. Letter to the editor of the Weekly Times on 12 January, 2011 from Michelle Gorman, General Manager Industry Systems in Meat and Livestock Australia.
about 1 year ago
From Lean’s letter: “As scientists…we have committed our lives to…improve the wellbeing of animals and those that care for them.”
This sounds a little like the various Dept’s of Forestries who throughout the 60′s, 70′s, 80′s and into the 90′s had responsibility for forests AND conservation…until we woke up one day about 20 years ago and started wondering where all the trees went.
about 1 year ago
Sven, your sarcasm has found a very poor example & show a degree of ignorance you have in animal production & forestry. You have done the foresters of Qld a great disservice who throughout the 60’s, 70’s & 80’s managed the forests to a sustainable timber yield to the point that they are recognized as high conservation areas about to suffer the mismanagement of being made national Parks. But that is a whole different debate.
about 1 year ago
I grew up in a NQ logging area and saw first hand, let alone the terrible impact on biodiversity. Various different sustainable yield estimates of this area were found to vary ten-fold over these decades, it was not scientific and various studies concur. That’s one small example but I don’t need a lesson, and this is not a logging blog. I was merely drawing a simile.
about 1 year ago
I’ve been a vegetarian for ten years, and won’t eat meat again until I’m convinced that animals raised for this purpose are treated with respect and compassion throughout their lives.
So yes, I would like to see cruelty-free and drug-free practices become widepsread.
Until that day, I will contue to deny that particular machine any of my money.
about 1 year ago
We are privileged to care for two pigs, ex-potential stars in the movie “Charlotte’s Web”. They were trained as 5 week-old piglets to do simple stage tricks. Rather than send them back to an intensive piggery Paramount Pictures arranged for them (and 40 other sows) to be sent to properties where they could live out their lives in a natural way.
With shade, water and space to make wallows and root around, and straw bedding under shelter, the Brisbane climate is fine for these Large White pigs.
The Australian climate is no excuse for the intensive farming of pigs. No doubt it is more expensive to bring free-range pig products to market but I believe consumers would be prepared to pay more for the improved welfare of the animals.
about 1 year ago
I wish everyone was aware of the way industrial reared meat – mainly pigs and chickens are kept. It is nothing short of Aushwitz for those animals. Particuarly pigs who are an highly intelligent animal. Abbatoirs are kept out of sight and out of mind. Please keep lighting the flame for those millions of voiceless animals. By the way Europe and the UK banned sow stalls years ago. Australia and America continue to abuse millions of animals annually that make up the daily diet of the population who are in complete ignorance. This aspect of humanity disgusts me.
about 1 year ago
Oh, Nikki, to compare this to Auschwitz is to stoop to new lows. How could you possibly compare the rearing of pigs and chickens on Australian farms to the atrocities committed in Nazi concentration camps?
Were pigs, chickens and cattle treated as the humans in Auschwitz were, the producers would make no money. The goal is to produce meat and milk, and if the animals are not well-fed, well-watered and well-cared for, the end goal is not met.
While animals are amazing, intelligent creatures, they are not story tellers… the reality is far removed from Charlotte’s Webb, and so long as we treat the animals well, the animals are happy. We now ensure low-stress environments at each stage of production, including the abattoir stage. Can we improve? Of course we can. But your vitriolic attack on modern agriculture does not help in the least.
Your post makes me very sad.
about 1 year ago
This comment by Nikka Fuda is outrageous & disgusting! It shows that there are no boundaries for these types of fundamentalist extremists. This aspect of humanity disgusts me.
about 1 year ago
Quote – Nikki Fuda “By the way Europe and the UK banned sow stalls years ago.”
Here we go with yet another incorrect statement. The only EU countries that have banned sow stalls are the UK and Sweden, in ~ 2000. Subsequently, UK pig production had shunk to 30% of what it formerly was, mostly through farmers closing their farms or going bankrupt. But guess what! There is still the same level of pork and bacon consumption – it’s just imported from other EU countries that still use sow stalls and have not had the massive costs of rebuilding farms thrust upon them.
The rest of the EU was supposed to phase out the use of stalls by this year, but none of them have, some governments (eg France) are refusing to comply due to the fact that it would wipe out their pig farmers.
Meanwhile, many EU farmers that could afford it have built new intensive piggeries (100% stalls) just outside the borders of the EU, so they don’t have to comply with the stall ban, and they just truck the weaned piglets back to their old farms inside the EU for fattening. This tactic has been quite popular with Danish farmers, and a lot of the bacon on sale in Aussie supermarkets is imported from Denmark.
So, who thinks that is a gain in animal welfare???
about 1 year ago
An excellent point. The purchasing policies and promotional activities of supermarkets such as Tesco were influential in forming these UK policies and shifting production offshore. And guess who is now running Coles, the same people.
about 1 year ago
Sven
So much good information supplied by the farmers commenting on this site and still so much misinformation out there.
All processing works in Australia are the most highly regulated in the world and are very humane but emotive language can destroy the truth in an instant. This article and the responses are more than enough evidence of that.
Nowadays most processors don’t even allow the farmers who produced the animals into the works which I don’t agree with but that is another topic. (Woolworths and Coles don’t let you walk out the door and pay whatever you think the product is worth, why should we).
As for the Greens, the farmers in this country are in real trouble due to extreme environmental regulation, and the public don’t even know it and certainly don’t seem to care. Already we have people such as the environmentalists who are remote from food production and the economic and environmental consequences of their actions telling the decision makers what to do and we are voiceless. They have a mantra reproduced often in the commentary on this site that being vegan/vegetarian is better for the environment and more “sustainable” whatever that means. The environmental law already enacted would suggest otherwise.
Some commentators like to talk negatively of profit motive or tax breaks to farmers. The facts are that most farmers just want to be able to service their debts but farm debt is rising at a faster rate than any other forms of debt in Australia (Reserve Bank of Australia) as a result of natural disaster and over regulation to the point of strangulation. Our debt or off-farm income is subsidising this regulation. Farm groups regularly try to engage the attention of ACCC to ensure that farmers are paid a fair price for their product (such as the $1 per litre milk) but they appear to have little understanding of the price taking situation. In fact all publicity surrounding food production eventually comes back to bite the producers (once more I cite this article and the commentary to it as evidence) while the middlemen get off scott free.
Green groups want to see livestock production and farming being forced out of Australia and the public won’t even notice until we have incidents like the recent ones in China where 3 babies died and hundreds of school children fell ill from milk contaminated by Nitrates .Hundreds more in a different provence fell ill from pork contaminated by unregulated substances This and many other food scandals in the wake of the 2008 melamine in the milk incidents should be enough for the Australian public to get behind the clean and healthy products produced in the most regulated environment in the world and not accept propaganda peddled by green groups as a substitute for being well informed.
HGP use may be a legitimate reason to exercise personal choice but it is not and should never have been presented as, an animal welfare issue.
about 1 year ago
Battling Farmer, I was referring to the comments of A Stevens above on regulation, as he seemed to be a farmer with a sensible balanced point of view in saying that:
“The only way I can see out of this dilemma is for the Govt or retailers or consumers to say ” This is how we want meat to be produced in Australia. Therefore we will set these standards for our farmers, but we will also require that any imported meat is raised by exactly the same standards. And we will inspect and monitor imports to ensure this is so.” This would ensure that the local market was not undermined, and would give farmers and lenders some reasonable confidence in investing in change.
Unfortunately, such policies are always challenged as “protectionist”, “anti free trade” etc, so there is virtually no chance that it will ever happen.”"
There appear to be a lot of people on both sides of the debate, including a lot of farmers/producers, who can’t agree on the best solution, even within your own camp. I think it best not to rubbish each others arguments or claim lack of substantiation when we all know that to fully provide evidence for all the claims here would turn this debate into a 1000+ page thesis which it is not.
Lets respect each others opinion and and agree to disagree and allow a rigorous but intellectual debate. Emotive language doesn’t ruin anything, it just makes us human. Perhaps there is some sense in wildly polarized views such as we have here and such as exist in politics (I could go on about Tony Abbott’s/Barnaby Joyce’s emotive BS! ), perhaps it is so that in the end we can find a happy middle ground?
about 1 year ago
Ruth your article would benefit from a little research. The HGP ban in Europe has nothing to do with human or animal health. The US have challenged this ban in the WTO, claiming there is no scientific basis for the ban, the US won. Europe maintains the ban as a trade barrier to protect their uncompetitive farming sector.
about 1 year ago
We only buy ethically produced meat and animal products, family- run dairy cows who treat calves well, no pig products at all, meat that comes from animals raised close to where they are slaughtered, no feedlots, no long distance transport. we buy local, never from the big supermarkets and never compromise. we go without rather than endorse animal cruelty when there are better options. Opinions don’t mean anything, it’s where you spend your money that counts and we reward producers who do the right thing.
about 1 year ago
I need to speak again, because I cannot believe how many radical people there are on both sides of the argument ,particularly the anti meat group and how few there are with balanced or moderate views. Maybe all the processed food we eat today is effecting our brains or is it a lack of spirituality and too many people having no affinity with the land.
Since my first post (24 April 11.12 am) I have done some research,some points I have found interesting are as follows.
1 From an article on the RSPCA’s website; Cattle Article ID: 459 updated 28 Mar 2011 “Little is known about the animal welfare effects of hormone growth promotants in cattle.” Further down the article it says the EU banned HGP in meat production in 1988 because of a possible link between cancer and HGP residues in meat however “it seems there was political pressure within the EU to impose a ban despite the actual risks to human health”. Maybe Ruth the verdict is not out in medical circles. I will happily be shown the evidence showing the opposite to be true.
2 The MLA’s website tells me “It is safe to eat meat from HGP treated cattle”.
Numerous reviews and evaluations from various health organizations around the world since the mid 1990′s have shown no increased health risk to humans.
I can’t find Professor Clive Phillips studies that tell us suffering is acute in hormone treated cattle, can you show or tell me where I can get my hands on those studies?. The Prof seems to have written a lot of material and I’m finding it difficult to know where to go.
In summary my online research seems to indicate eating HGP treated cattle is safe not that it will change my view to eating it. Specifically grassfed beef because of the more natural and better fatty acid ratio in comparison to grainfed beef in my opinion is what I’ll choose.
about 1 year ago
G’day Rony,
Top post mate. I dont use HGP’s – but that is my choice, not because I think there is anything untoward from using them at all. I like you cannot find anything “bad” about them.
Your comment I find is informative, and balanced. Thank you appreciate it.
about 1 year ago
G’day Tony,
Top post mate. I dont use HGP’s – but that is my choice, not because I think there is anything untoward from using them at all. I like you cannot find anything “bad” about them.
Your comment I find is informative, and balanced. Thank you appreciate it.
about 1 year ago
I agree with your views as outlined in the original article. And I commend vegetarianism to anyone concerned about the wellbeing of animals, and about global sustainability and food security.
about 1 year ago
Fiona how does vegetarianism help global sustainability and food security?
about 1 year ago
I have no desire to eat meat that is contaminated with HGP and try hard to source free range, grass fed and “happy” meat for my family.
If i can’t get it i don’t buy it. I think consumers need to make a stand and try really hard to encourage meat retailers to source meat that was once a fairly contented beastie that was free to behave and be treated as a sentient being. You are what you eat.. eat happy!!!!
about 1 year ago
It is definitely not right that the sows should have to suffer such cruelty. not being able to move or interact with their piglets is a horribly thing to do because it makes them upset and depressed. No one would allow dog or cat owners to do such a thing so why should animals raised for food be forced to suffer. Companion or food all animals should be allowed the same degree of protection and quality of life.
Thanks for writing about this and staying strong with your views
about 1 year ago
Victoria, Do you know how to treat different farm animals according to the differences of each species; or are you viewing this topic via your human perceptions and emotions?
The biggest cause of behavioural problems with pet dogs is that people are treating them as if they were their child instead of as a pack animal confused by mixed signals from their pack leader.
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth
Two comments from me in two weeks and once again I look at your subject matter from a different perspective.
This week I am concerned about your support of Coles, particularly its “No Added Hormones” marketing campaign.
The facts on Hormonal Growth Promotants (HGPs) and Coles include:
1) The beef, lamb and chicken meat shelves of my local Coles supermarket are labelled “No Added Hormones”.
2) Hormones have never been used in the production of lamb in Australia, so why bother with the label?
3) No added hormones or steroids have been used in chicken meat production in Australia for at least 40 years. Again, why does Coles use the “No Added Hormone” label?
4) 60% of beef cattle in Australia are raised without the use of HGPs.
5) HGPs are authorised for use in beef production but do impact adversely on the tenderness of beef, especially the prime cuts.
6) Whilst the shelves are marked “No Added Hormones”, the “No Added Hormones” labelling of individual fresh beef products at my local Coles is inconsistent. For example, on 26 April 2011 at The Barracks Coles in Brisbane, labels were on the beef burgers, some sausages, mince and rump steak but not on veal, eye fillet or scotch fillet cuts. Does this mean the unlabelled prime cuts and other beef products are from cattle implanted with HGPs?
7) The Coles burgers and some sausages with the “No Added Hormones” label have another label: “Allergy Advice – Contains Gluten and Sulphites”, begging the question, which is worse, hormones, gluten or sulphites?
9) My local Coles still stocks its shelves with perishable food made from local and imported ingredients, including for example, lasagne, bacon, frankfurts and shaved chicken breast, again begging questions about the efficacy of Coles marketing.
10) Coles does not label imported meat and meat products with the name of the country of origin, leaving me to ponder whether the anonymous country of origin has a quality assurance program equal to or better than Australia’s National Livestock Identification Scheme.
I hope the above 10 points influence your message to Coles. In the process you may also wish to ask Coles whether it is likely that at $1 a litre, its milk suppliers will need to lower fat and protein levels to the minimum permissible standards. Permeates and milk processing – now there’s an issue for another day!
Yours sincerely
about 1 year ago
Thanks Brian, I most certainly will pass these sentiments on, expecially the point you are making about imported meat being able to slip through without undergoing the same rigour that Australian producers are subjected to.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, I believe that Brian has made some very good points above. Not only should imported produce be subjected to the same standards, which it is not, imported produce should be clearly marked as such. Even product that is imported in bulk & then packaged here in Australia can have a Made in Australia branding.
Allow the consumer to have the choise and this choise will then be an indicator of what produce should be presented at the shop shelf.
about 1 year ago
The bottom line is this. If the general public feels uncomfortable about hormones in meat and eats less meat as a result, producers will think again about how they raise and manage their stock. I generally eat a small amount of meat each week, usually only two or three days a week. I rarely buy chicken, even in restaurants, because of the way the birds are treated and I am cautious about red meat because I am not at all sure that feeding animals extra hormones is a good thing. I almost never eat pig meat, pork or bacon, for a variety of non-religious reasons. I believe a predominantly vegetarian diet is healthier than a heavy meat diet and could easily move to eating red meat only once a week or or even less frequently if I became more concerned about the way meat is produced.
about 1 year ago
Thank you for your column. I am very disappointed that trained vets would think like this. Animal welfare should surely be forefront. It is wrong to treat animals as commodities or units of money. They are sentient beings. Perhaps humans should keep meat as a rare “treat” in their diets and allow animals to have a natural life. I suggest a read of “Under the Skin” by Michel Faber for another way of looking at things.
about 1 year ago
Sorry I forgot to mention that we definitely don’t eat Pork due to intensive farming practise.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth,
Thank you for your interest in animal welfare and ultimately human welfare.
I can’t abide current intensive farming practices and are so offended by them that I no longer can buy and eat Lamb, chicken and Beef, so sorry, to all the kind, wonderful farmers out there who do treat animals with respect and kindness, I have been a farmer myself and cherished all my animals, they were treated well until they were sent to the works but now I regret even that. My husband still wishes to have the odd steak and we try to buy from free range butchers but I think the steers are in feed lots at the end of their muster so it is still a dilemma for us both. I have been educated by a trip to India where many Indian friends have never eaten meat and are as healthy as we are.
I wonder how much propaganda and marketing has gone on into convincing our Western society to consume first class Protein (meat) for better health. We are all very sceptical nowadays as most of us are aware that marketing practise is utilised to promote increase financial returns rather than to better an individual’s health.
I also wonder about the effect of these chemicals/hormones given to animals in their feed, on our human hormone response is there some/any link between the diabetes epidemic and the available food sources.
Keep up the good work Ruth, happy animals = happy humans and lets encourage environmental responsibility particularly in the area of population control, that has become taboo of late. Angela F
about 1 year ago
Angela, I too wonder about propaganda that has gone on for all non-factual comments that have been made in this blog. If you were from a farm you would be aware that a significant portion of the beef is fattened on crops in open paddocks rather than in feedlots & this beef is easily sourced.
I wonder about the broad negative assertions that you have made; can you back any of it up with fact? You sow doubt that there may be a connection with even diabetes; where is the studies to show this one?
about 1 year ago
I am becoming more and more concerned about eating meat, chicken, fish, and intend to become mostly vegetarian. I never eat pork now because I have heard of conditions in pig farms and the pork tastes nothing like it used to. My butcher sells supposedly free range pork from Otway but not free range bacon which I never see sold anywhere.
Thank you for using your column for such a worthwhile cause.
about 1 year ago
A few more bits of related info…the EU is banning battery hen farming from January 2012…Australian Standards for a battery hen are space of approximately the size of an A4 piece of paper. The hens are confined for their entire life, unable to carry out natural behaviors, in a dimly lit environment. Hard to see how this could be considered ‘good practice’ by anyone’s standards. If this is what cheap food production is all about -I for one am definitely willing to pay more.
about 1 year ago
I support Professor Lean.
I think your article reveals a bias “adrenaline from fear and misery permeates the flesh we eat.”
I think it somewhat cynical that Coles and Woolies seek false issues such as these to compete with each other.
We should be using modern science to improve our food supply while maintaining our concern for animal welfare.
about 1 year ago
I only buy certified free-range Otway pork and free-range chicken and free-range eggs from a friend. My butcher assures me that the beef they sell is not from feed-lot cattle but how can you be sure about that? My daughters live in the US and I visit often and pretty much all the beef there is from feed-lots. You know when you are approaching one from the stench that hits you way before you pass the seething mass of cattle packed like sardines and standing up to their knees in shit. The meat over there has a “off” taste and smells strange when its being cooked. Obviously I never eat meat while I’m there. I believe that feed-lots are becoming more common in Australia – is this right? It’s a disguisting way to raise any animal and as for Professor Lean stating that there’s no conflict of interest in being bankrolled by drug companies – he must think we are all a bunch of morons to believe that guff! It’s all about greed and raking in the most money. Shame on them all. I’d recommend everyone to read “Fast Food Nation.” It’s a real eye-opener on the food industry and multi-nationals behaviour.
about 1 year ago
Hello Ruth, I have been meaning to write and let you know that the first thing I do when I get the W’end Aus is to turn to your column. You write about the things I think about.
Your article this last weekend has prompted me to communicate. It makes sense to me that the next stage of human development will be to take better care of animals. It is distressing to hear such stories of sows and their piglets. I also believe that farmers must have contingency plans for the well-being of their animals in the cases of flood and drought. It is distressing that the animals are left to suffer. Thanks, Sue
about 1 year ago
If you care about your health and that of your children I can recommend watching ‘Food Inc’ by Eric Schlosser. It’s a real eyeopener as to what goes on behind the scenes in food production. No wonder they want to keep us in the dark.
Not a mushroom – Chris
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth, Thank you for raising this important issue. How do we know whether “free range” eggs, “organic meats” are really so? I have long been interested in the hormones in food and how they affect my female patients. Why are the children so tall now compared to 40-50 years ago? Why have some little girls of 8-9 started menstruating? When we look at the food they eat, we are constantly being reassured that “chickens have not had hormones added for decades” and yet when I took some 110 women, whose oestrogen level was extremely high ie over 1000, off ALL chicken, 85% fell to normal levels with weeks! So where is this oestrogen coming from if it is not being added? In the feed? The problem puzzled me until I heard recently that chickens raised for the table are young and fattened for market, but chickens raised as layers of eggs are no good for the table after their laying life is done. So they are ‘treated’ (?) and they pulverised to be fed back to the chickens for the table! When I saw a notice at a famous chicken retailer saying “No hormones, No antibiotics” I rang the CEO and asked if they would cooperate with me on a study of hormones in chickens and maybe I could recommend their brand as truly hormone free. They called back saying they were not interested, as they have never said they were “hormone free” but just “no added hormones”. Next day, the sign was gone at the outlet. If this is he kind of sleight of hand we get from our food producers, then give me the smaller breeder and producer where I can go and see for myself, but we need to avoid the production of prions in chickens the way they were produced in beef not so long ago, resulting in CJD.
about 1 year ago
Dear Maura,
Thanks for your enlightening post, I have often seen the label “no added hormones” and with my marketing background cynically wondered exactly what they meant.
If as Ruth suggested, there was some transparency amongst the producers and processors to the point that they let the video cameras in alongside an unbiased journalist and scientist then maybe we could get to the bottom of this debate (and I’m not talking about the small guys who I have seen on this forum and who actually give a damn about more than just profit).
Information and/or standards are the key and as a producer said on this blog earlier if the government implemented standards for the whole industry to meet, including standards for labelling then consumers could make informed choices and the local industry would be more assured that they won’t suffer while cheap un-regulated imports beat them on pricing.
The fact that a marketing dept of any of these food giants can come up with an unsubstantiated phrase “no added hormones” or some such, plastering it all over their product to sway and mislead the customer is outrageous, the consumer and the animal both suffer for the sake of the shareholders profit and executive pays.
As individual consumers we have very little capacity to take these companies to the ACCC or challenge them in the courts over such statements, but isn’t this one of the reasons we have a government, ie. to provide leadership? Perhaps we should collectively use the current precarious political environment federally to apply pressure to those holding the balance of power to help get this issue front and centre. If change is possible with issues such as poker machines and carbon taxes through people like Andrew Wilkie and parties like the Greens, then why not this issue? In fact, I wonder why the Greens, with over 10% of the vote, aren’t as vocal about this as they have been about the Carbon Tax, after all they are inextricably linked on the ‘sustainability platform’.
Labelling standards implemented by government shouldn’t discriminate against local industry vs import, would help protect and inform consumers, and prevent misleading “no added hormones” type statements being made by the food companies…yet unfortunately I’m also aware the political process and political media bias (of which only a few newspapers/broadcasters are innocent), and news cycle would sooner or later yield Tony Abbott or Joe Hockey standing in a supermarket with a piece of meat in hand spruiking “these proposed labelling standards will cost the consumer an extra 20 cents on this lovely piece of fillet”.
We can’t rely on organisations whose primary aim is to increase revenues and profit to self-regulate. Anyone who has ever been involved in the clean energy sector will know most companies who claim to embrace a “triple bottom line” are only doing so to cynically gain a market advantage, not because they really believe sustainability is as important as profits. Perhaps over time this will change.
Regardless, don’t we as consumers and voters have the right to be fully and accurately informed about everything we buy and eat, or do we allow the raging out of control “market environment” to dictate most decisions on a profit-basis?
about 1 year ago
Maura, nobody on here seems very interested in posting links to studies that support their outrageous claims, but hopefully, since you are a doctor, you won’t shy away.
Could you please provide the evidence for this statement, “So they are ‘treated’ (?) and they pulverised to be fed back to the chickens for the table!”
Thank you…Jane
about 1 year ago
Thank you for your sensible request. I’m happy with the information I’m holding but since I’ve had not 1, but 2 death threats because of the work I have done in the past I would prefer not to disclose the geography and thereby incur further risk from someone I do not know. I have of course the details of my own study of women’s hormones levels which as yet is unpublished. I hope that you can join the cause to make our food safer in anyway you can.
Regards
Maura
about 1 year ago
Maura, the reason the ‘hormone free’ advertising went missing is probablybecause ‘hormone free’ is a misleading statement. Food contains naturally occurring hormones, soybean oil for example contains concentrations of homones many hundreds of times greater than HGP treated beef.
about 1 year ago
Professor Ian Lean’s comment “What mother would not …etc.” is ridiculous and disingenuous. As if mother pig makes a conscious decision to sacrifice herself in this way for her piglets. What’s next?
It is puzzling to say the least that a veterinary scientist is more concerned about food supplies than the welfare of the animals.
about 1 year ago
Just to correct an error in your fourth paragraph. Sows that are kept in the crates are not fed growth hormones. If any are fed growth hormones, they are the younger pigs to encourage them to grow – sows are already fully grown.
I would prefer you stick to facts in your columns rather than let emotion take over, which then leads to ill-informed comments from people who don’t know. Like many journalists, you rarely let facts get in the way of an emotional story.
Scientists need all the help they can get to present facts to the public.
about 1 year ago
Thanks for the information Sam, the regulations differ in different countries. For instance hormones are fed to dairy cows overseas but not here. I am trying to inspire an international debate, and yes, it’s good to get the facts about what is happening in Australia – although feeding hormones to piglets not grown pigs doesn’t give me any comfort. Perhaps others might like to comment.
about 1 year ago
For goodness sake! As I’ve already posted on here – NO PIGS IN AUSTRALIA ARE FED HORMONES. I don’t suppose anybody will take my word for it, so do your own research. There is no such product available. It is simply not possible.
The only growth hormones for pigs that are available are injectables, and in 30 years of working in pig farming, I only heard of one farm which used it.
about 1 year ago
No animals anywhere in the world are fed hormones (other than naturally in the feed they consume). HGPs in cattle are in the form of slow-release implants that are inserted under the skin of the ear. BST and PST are injected, and are not used by a majority of producers in countries in which the product is approved…because they are difficult to manage.
Ruth, I agree with Sam. You are intentionally trying to use emotion while minimising your use of truth. Why?
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth,
I think this quote from Ghandi says it all, “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”. I think Australia is one of the cruelest and most backward nations when it comes to the way its farm animals are treated. We confine them to tiny cages where they cannot turn around, lay down in comfort or engage with their fellow species, we cut off their beaks, cut off their tails, cut of their teeth, cut flesh from their bottoms, castrate them with NO pain relief and we call ourselves a humane nation!!!! Australian farmers also treat the public with contempt when they try to hide from the public what goes on in the ‘hell’ farms where animals are raised for their meat. If Europe has banned HGP then they would have good scientific evidence to have made this decision, as usual Australia is lagging behind the rest of the world. Australian meat producers do not make any changes when it comes to the welfare of the animals that are produced for consumption unless they are FORCED to, just look at the case with eggs. Until a few years ago you would never find ‘free range’ eggs on the supermarket shelves. It was only because the cruelty involved in egg production was made public that the community pressured supermarkets into providing free range eggs. Prof Lean is a twit, the best way to put an end to the food shortage is to stop consuming meat. Going Vegetarian or ultimately Vegan would end the worlds food shortage, it’s a much healthier way of life, is great for the environment and would end all the cruel practices and HGP use that go on with the production of meat, eggs and dairy!!!!
about 1 year ago
Thank you Ruth, for exposing a deceptive advertising campaign, stage managed by drug companies using a once trusted profession – namely vetenarians. I do not want HGP fed to the animals that I and my family will purchase as processed meat.
I often ask myself why of why did my mother (youngest of 6 girls) with 7 sis-in-laws with a large circle of female friends, family friends, female acquaintenances & countless nieces – in other words a very very large circle of females only ever know just one friend who had breast cancer. . Mum (1914-2006)) knew just one sufferer, whereas I (1941 vintage) now know over 30 (and still increasing) living and deceased with this wretched condition. What has happened between those women born in the early 20th century to those born 1940′s on I often ask myself? Prior to her death Mum and I often used to discuss this subject and wonder what changed, why did the latter century females of our acquantance anyway seem more affected as most of mum’s female family and friends died of old age not breast cancer.
What chemical etc have we been exposed to compared to my mother’s generation I ask myself. something has changed and not for the better. Thank you Ruth.
about 1 year ago
If there are looming food shortages, we need to curb the world’s ridiculous population growth – Australia included. There is no excuse whatsoever for any cruelty towards animals. I don’t care if we are supposed to be omnivores. The only way I can ensure I am not supporting any cruel practices is to live a vegan lifestyle.
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth,
The defenders of feedlot cattle practices seem to suffer from short memories. During the late eighties and early nineties there were a number of disasters reported in this feedlot “industry”.
By feeding these cattle grain mixed with sterilised chicken droppings that were not sterilised properly, in one instance some 5000 cattle had to be slaughtered and disposed of (after dying of salmonella poisoning) in huge holes dug by giant bulldozers. This practice of adding chicken droppings to cattle feed has I believe been stopped.
The practice of adding chicken droppings was justified was on the grounds that chicken droppings contain valuable protein.
Never mind that cattle are vegetarians! They obviously didn’t like half-cooked dead chickens left on the floor of the chicken pens.
American chicken farmers still add chopped up cardboard to the chicken feed on the grounds that chickens need cellulose for their egg shells and cardboard is a rich scource of cellulose.
But it does show the mind set of of the agricultural scientists who promote these practices.
Animals and by implication humans are just machines, albeit complicated machines, but machines nevertheless.
Therefore, we can manipulate animals as well as plants as we please.
That is the machine-age mindset and many scientists are still under its spell. A few years ago The Australian published a survey amongst scientists of who did they think was the greatest scientists that ever lived.
Not surprisingly they voted for Isaac Newton, the mover and shaker of the machine-age. The age of machine-like scientific determinism.
Empirical science, the science of measurement and observation, is the science par exellence to create material objects in space and time.
But it is also based on a unstated assumption, namely that what is observed is separate from the observer, e.g. the scientist.
However you cannot design an electronic computer or split an atom in a nuclear reactor on Newtonian science alone. That’s why we had to use mechanical calculating machines and typewriter until the seventies.
The electronic revolution is based on post-Newtonian physics, with the quantum theory playing a leading role in cybernetics and its technological offspring, the computer. This science is for want of a better term, information age science.
Here follows what one of the contributors of the quantum theory, Erwin Schroedinger, had to say about an important aspect of the quantum theory, namely the “uncertainty principle”:
“Subject and object are only one. The barrier between them cannot be said to have broken down as a result of recent experience in the physical sciences, for this barrier does not exist.”
There are no boundaries in our universe. A well-known physicist Paul Davies puts it this way: “You are swimming in a sea of neutrinos.”
To do science is as natural as the birds and bees, since it is derived from the capabilities of the human mind, itself a product of nature, evolution and development just like the animals plants and the earth itself are.
But please, let us not turn science into another false religion or blood cult. How many more innocents have to die on the altar of 19th century scientific beliefs and practices?
Anyone for more remote-controlled drones?
about 1 year ago
I agree whole heartedly with your article. I am a long term vegetarian recently turned vegan for health reasons. The other two in my family including my 3 1/2 year old daughter are light meat eaters, but are fed only organic meat bought direct from the farmer whenever possible. We are what we eat – so we choose not to consume food riddled with unnecessary chemicals or the misery of poor animals denied a decent life. As a ‘civilised’ society we should know better.
about 1 year ago
N’ight Ruth. You’re a wonderful host and we appreciate your moderation.
about 1 year ago
Thanks all for your insights and comments, I’m closing moderation now. Time for bed, but please continue to write, I will accept your posts in the morning and look forward to another day of discussion. Warm wishes Ruth
about 1 year ago
Two years ago my 12 and 14 year old daughters made a decision to become vegetarian in an effort to high light the unethical managment of Australian and imported livestock and wild harvested meat. At the time I was a little upset in that we were responsible members of society and my eldest daughter was a person who enjoyed her steake. Susbequently I researched and discovered some terrible facts in relation to the industry and our ‘sustainable’ eating habits. Shortly after I also joined my daughters in protest, however, not as a full time vegetarian. I will still consume meat if it can be sourced from ethical farming practices AND ethical processing. Fortunately in Brisbane we can access such meat, The Meating Place at Paddington provides ethically raised and slaughter meat, the product comes of organic and hormone free farms where the animals are given full free range and slaughtered in a humane manner at an abbatior in Casino (Northern NSW). I pay over double the amount for all my meat, which on one income can be a little challenging! We now eat a lot less meat and I have been able to educate myself to cook some very good vegetarian dishes. My two younger children have remained non-vegetarian and subsequently meal preparation at my house can sometimes be a little complexed, of which I am happy to accommodate, choosing meat from The Meating Place. We openingly talk about how and what we do with our animals, I have my own chickens who are very happy and provide us with hormone and chemical free eggs. I congradulate Coles, and also Woolworths who have followed, lets see if we can now get McDonalds to now change to free range eggs and chicken for their products!
about 1 year ago
Mark D, “Susbequently I researched and discovered some terrible facts in relation to the industry and our ‘sustainable’ eating habits.”
Perhaps you could relate those “facts” to the readers here? There is an awful lot of mud-slinging on the comments on here, but very little in the way of evidence. I’m very happy to respond to “facts.”
about 1 year ago
Thanks for bringing this issue up again Ruth. At last the little ppl are being heard by big business. A message to Cole & Woolies: yes we care about the welfare of the animals we eat and the drugs that are pumped into them. It’s the right thing to do.
about 1 year ago
The use of “growth” hormones that are promoted as being essential to feed the world, etc. is similar to the arguments used by Monsanto and its supporters to justify the use of “Roundup Ready” a.k.a. GM crops.
The article “The Growing Menace from Superweeds” in Scientific American, May 2011, pp58-63 explains the problems caused in the USA to foods crops that are being overtaken by weeds that have developed immunity Roundup. The weeds have evolved. I can’t see why the indiscriminate use of antibiotics in animal production will not have a similar immunity effect of the bugs currently suppressed in the human population by the same anti-biotics. Nature, and evolution, is smarter than the Vets, their big-pharma friends and animal farmers. It is time we, as a society, learnt that lesson.
about 1 year ago
Well done Ruth for writing about this issue. I could write pages on it – cruelty to animals, denial/ignorance/indifference by humans of this cruelty etc. Not only are the animals we slaughter to eat often kept in inhumane conditions they are taken to the abattoir and ‘prepared’for slaughtering in an inhumane way. I haven’t eaten meat for 20 years because of these practices (which I initially read about in a newspaper article). I’ve always thought that if the inhumane practices stopped I would eat meat again but until then I’m boycotting meat. PS Maybe a vet doesn’t understand ethics and what is a conflict of interest but what about the University of Sydney’s ethics committee?
about 1 year ago
Sarah, you said, “cruelty to animals, denial/ignorance/indifference by humans of this cruelty etc. Not only are the animals we slaughter to eat often kept in inhumane conditions they are taken to the abattoir and ‘prepared’for slaughtering in an inhumane way. I haven’t eaten meat for 20 years because of these practices (which I initially read about in a newspaper article).”
As a producer, I would like for you to explain exactly what you mean by your comments. How are animals “prepared for slaughtering in an inhumane way?” If you only rely upon a newspaper article, perhaps you have not been properly informed. Producers are willing to share their experiences and information with you. Are you willing to hear it?
about 1 year ago
I have been a vegetarian for over 20 years, and a Christian for most of my life. Growing up, my father encouraged me to think about animal rights. I find it sickening and utterly inhumane how creatures are treated in factory farming concerns. I was disappointed to read recently, that even the hormone-free beef products sold in Coles supermarkets are ‘finished off’ at feedlot operations where the animals are often standing up to their knees in manure and have little shade. Watching ‘Food Inc’ also helped to stiffen my resolve to only ever buy free range meat (for my kids). Its encouraging to see that free range pork and free range Lillydale chicken is now available in some supermarkets. I have to smile when my daughter asks loudly in the supermarket if ‘these are the animals that are kept in tiny cages or not’ when buying meat! You do what you can…
about 1 year ago
Hippymum, if you use movies like “Food Inc” for your knowledge base, then you are doing your children a great disservice. If you can post what your problem is with meat production, perhaps honest producers can attempt to respond. Your nebulous attacks on animal agriculture are easy to make, but not so easy to substantiate.
Do you know that you are hurting honest people by making such statements? Does this matter to you?
about 1 year ago
Hippymum, Be thankful that you have the freedom & choice to buy free range and please feel free to pay higher prices for free range for the added costs these farmers have.
I believe that you have repeated misinformation that no doubt you have picked up from unreliable sources such as ‘Food Inc’. The use of the term factory farms is an emotive generalisation. It is absolute rubbish to suggest that cattle in feedlots live in manure up to their knees and have no shade. Feedlots in Australia are strictly regulated, they have pen density & pen condition requirements and these days there are long wide strips of shade cloth suspended over the pens.
By all means you can choose to buy free range but please don’t spread such obvious falsehoods
about 1 year ago
Hi Rick, The information about cattle standing up to their knees in manure and having very little shade, comes not from an emotive doco, but a very general artical in a weekend newspaper magazine on raising beef without hormones. It was information provided by a feedlot operator.
about 1 year ago
Then It’s my belief that the newspaper article published wrong information, that was well out of date or just got it wrong. I’m no feedlotter but am aware of the current regulation. A feedlot to gain registration has to go through multiple nspections and then in operation has to meet a set of standards. Having a manure build up such as that newspaper wrote about is not allowed.
about 1 year ago
Ruth,
I can tell that you are new to the Blogoshere. I think that you are being even handed but I fear that you will burnout quickly answering every reply.
I inherited the “Just Grounds” site and have a couple of years experience watching and seeing how unpredictable this medium is. We have some very good content buried in our older windows and as you can see- a lot of us are very prickly about green agenda’s that tie us in beauracracy and red tape for no practical gain.
I was trying to build up a story with Asa Walquist( around the time of her departure) re -The lack of true Rural Representation of Landowners by the National Farmers Federation and the State Farming bodies.
The lack of a “self respecting” value for our produce most of the time has Rural Australia almost at breaking point. The above mentioned might as well be working for the Govt and the big end of town as they certainly aren’t interested in their members.
We have a wealth of evidence and info if your interested.I spend hours on this computer trying to get our voice out to the masses- after thirty years and in the National Paper- you are in an enviable position.
about 1 year ago
Lovely to make your virtual acquaintance Rob. And yes please write to me once this controversy has died down. I have my hands full at the moment, but my email address is ruth@ruthostrow.com.
about 1 year ago
Rob, could you please provide a link to your “Just Grounds Community” . It has been raised on here before, and I did ask Ruth if she was able to post a link.
It sounds like it could be very educational for all bloggers.
Thank you
about 1 year ago
The excellent article “Happy as a pig in Mudgee” in the Weekend Australian magazine of 20-21 February 2010 educated me about the differences between “bred free range” and “free range” pork. Apart from bacon (bought very occasionally), I ensure the pork I buy falls into one of these two categories – only available from Coles as far as supermarkets go. In spite of managing a tight budget, I prefer to think that the meat I’m eating came from a (reasonably) happy animal. It’s also great that Coles has introduced hormone-free beef. So yes, I agree with you, Ruth!
about 1 year ago
This is not the same Jane as me! Ruth, surely there is something your site can do to keep from two usernames posting on the same discussion?
about 1 year ago
PS: PUT YOUR SURNAME INTO YOUR NEXT POST TO DIFFERENTIATE YOU FROM THE OTHER JANE
Thanks Jane but the moderation is very difficult. I am alone with hundreds of posts coming in, trying to read them all write another column, write another blog, get in a major university assignment, drive around a teenage daugther and her friends on holiday and make sure no one is wiriting obscenities. So I will let the Jane’s battle it out, but I’m lloving it all so keep comments coming
about 1 year ago
Hormone free, free range for me. I have never been able to comprehend inhumane treatment of animals for any reason. Thanks for writing your column and drawing attention to this.
about 1 year ago
Jackie, what evidence do you have that “hormone free” (there is no such thing) and “free range” (does this mean never fed anything but grass?) are better for animals than not? This is argument from ignorance, and it is highly unfortunate.
about 1 year ago
I’m with you Ruth! I rarely respond to requests like yours, so let that be an index to Lean of how important the issue is to me! Every food purchase I make is done after I have assessed the ethics of the production. For instance, I don’t eat cage eggs but accept “barn laid, RSPCA approved” as “poor man’s kosher.” In this present case, depending on the source of the growth hormone (synthetic or animal extracted) we could be setting society up for another “prion attack.” And many so called growth promoters are antibiotics in other usage, so their use only encourages bacterial pathogen resistance – bad for mankind all round!. His arguments are specious. Lean on Lean a bit harder darling!
about 1 year ago
I am not a vegetarian. I enjoy eating meat. However, I have not eaten pork for some time because of the cruelty involved in their husbandry. Free-range chicken I eat (but often wonder how ‘free-range’ it is and how the animals are killed, so am eating even less of that meat than I used to. Because of my doctor’s advice I try to eat red meat a couple of times a week, but usually buy lamb because, as far as I know it is not raised ‘intensively’… . Does lamb contain HGP? We really need more information at ‘the butcher’s’ so that we, the customers, know exactly how the animals have been raised and killed – and whether or not the meat contains hormone or other ‘additives’.
If I had more information, and therefore more choice, I am sure I would eat more meat.
Thank you for your always interesting and often thought-provoking column.
about 1 year ago
Susanne, I don’t believe that any HGP’s are used in the production of lamb at all. You have more chance of gaining information at a local butcher than one of the big supermarkets. If you aren’t getting the information, swap butchers. With beef, MSA grading ensures that the beef is HGP free.
about 1 year ago
Susanne Kay, you have said, “I have not eaten pork for some time because of the cruelty involved in their husbandry.”
Could you please explain exactly what you mean by that?
You’ve also said, “If I had more information, and therefore more choice, I am sure I would eat more meat.”
It’s a shame that you are being provided not with information and facts, but only emotive anti-animal-agriculture propaganda. I’m sure that you would feel okay about eating meat if you would hear the producers’ side of the story. Stay strong, and please, continue your search for truth.
about 1 year ago
Those 35 veterinary scientists do not care about the well being of livestock. Their assertions are ridiculous. Animals for human consumption should be raised humanely and not given un-neccessary drugs which will compromise our health too. We should buy from our local butcher shop.
about 1 year ago
“If HGP is banned in Europe it must be based on scientific evidence”. Battling Farmer is right. The HGP ban in Europe was considered necessary to reduce their “Beef Mountain.”
It stopped meat from USA and put a severe curb on other imports.
Beef in South America is derived from entire males with hormone levels much greater than any HGPs, and exported to Europe.
The CEO of Coles, imported from Britain, is exhibiting a cynical disregard for his farmer suppliers. If HGPs are not allowed in the production system without an adequate premium for the farmer, grain finishing will be uneconomic anyway.
The MSA system could come into its own if the producer gets the right price signals.
about 1 year ago
“Beef in South America is derived from entire males with hormone levels much greater than any HGPs, and exported to Europe.
The CEO of Coles, imported from Britain, is exhibiting a cynical disregard for his farmer suppliers. If HGPs are not allowed in the production system without an adequate premium for the farmer, grain finishing will be uneconomic anyway.
The MSA system could come into its own if the producer gets the right price signals.”
Ladies and Gentlemen adding comment to this site. This man is a person who is highly regarded, and is above reproach, his credibility is an example that all who are discussing this topic should listen to (read) and learn from.
Thank you Ron Bahnisch for sharing your considerable knowledge here with “both sides of the fence”.
about 1 year ago
Wow, Ruth. I hadn’t looked carefully enough before commenting, to see the extent of vitriol your humane article had prompted. I see that my (previous) post is still awaiting moderation – please feel free to exclude the first para if its inclusion would mean excluding the second para, which is more important in the overall scheme of things.
about 1 year ago
“Wow, Ruth. I hadn’t looked carefully enough before commenting, to see the extent of vitriol your humane article had prompted. I see that my (previous) post is still awaiting moderation – please feel free to exclude the first para if its inclusion would mean excluding the second para, which is more important in the overall scheme of things.”
Well, this is interesting. I do wonder what Ruth is moderating here. Could it be more of the vitriol that Fiona is complaining about? Hmmm. If Ruth’s post is “humane” and Fiona is talking about the pro-animal-agriculturalists’ point of view as “vitriol”ic, then Fiona’s post must be pretty bad. Very interesting, this. Thanks for posting again, Fiona!
about 1 year ago
I totally agree Ruth. I abhor the way we treat animals today – we are still very much animals ourselves and to abuse our fellow beings purely for our own convenience shows us to be far less civilised than we think we are. In fact many of the ancient cultures that we regard as ‘barbarian’ had much more respect and appreciation for the animals they killed and ate than we do. I have been a vegetarian now for nearly 50 years, and one of the reasons I became one was because I did not like the way we treated the animals we ate.
Well done for writing about such an important subject.
Adele Foote.
about 1 year ago
Adele, “I abhor the way we treat animals today,” perhaps you could expound on how “we treat animals today.” What exactly are you talking about?
about 1 year ago
How anyone could happily eat pig flesh after knowing the miserable lives these creatures lead is beyond me! Lack of intelligence, lack of empathy, lack of …pretty much everything that I value. Honestly, how could you?
about 1 year ago
Paula writes, “How anyone could happily eat pig flesh after knowing the miserable lives these creatures lead is beyond me! Lack of intelligence, lack of empathy, lack of …pretty much everything that I value. Honestly, how could you?”
I’ve been around pigs quite a bit in my life. What evidence do you have for “the miserable lives these creatures lead?” Honestly, I don’t think most of you understand anything about which you are commenting.
about 1 year ago
I don’t trust anyone whose opinion is linked with monies received and/or solicited from Pfizer and Bayer – nor, for that matter – from Coles or Woolworths.
I agree that when considering the cruelty or ethics associated with raising animals for slaughter there is a very real difference between those kept in conditions of restraint, and those able to enjoy movement and natural sensations while alive. But that difference is not enough for me; I am a healthy woman of 53 who stopped eating meat at 15. Vegetarianism works. And it’s more sustainable for the planet and for global food security. That is the bigger point, and the more important point than anything a small bunch of sponsored veterinarians have to say on the subject of animal husbandry.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth, it’s bad enough that humans still need to kill to sustain themselves, it seems prehistoric. However, as long as we do kill animals, farming animals and killing them needs to be done with the utmost compassion.
I am not a vegetarian, I do eat occasional meat, and I just can hope that what I eat has not been reared with cruel practices.
Have a look at my wife’s’ painting of the ” Activist Cow” ..
http://www.gallerygiselle.com/cow-portrait.html
.. cheers .. Dieter L. Editor – useNature.com
about 1 year ago
Ruth, it is great that you have raised this issue and provided a forum to debate the complex issues surrounding the use of animals in food production. The probing questions of where our food is coming from and the methods by which it end up in our supermarkets are well overdue; at least now people are starting to ask for real details. Coles and Woolworths are responding to consumer demand for free-range, humanely raised and hormone free meat products. For this group of vets to attempt to persuade well-informed consumers otherwise, with appeals to ‘sustainable’ and ‘humane’ use of animals for food, was offensive and a thinly veiled device to introduce the wider use of hormones and the other drugs necessary to sustain the intensive farming of animals. Bank-rolled as they were by multinational pharmaceutical companies it can only be viewed as self interested and unethical. The drug companies are simply looking to Australia as an easier market since the tighter regulation of these products in the EU and UK. In addition Professor Lean’s comments on animal rearing practices such as sow stalls showed little regard for the welfare of animals, which I naively thought should be of primary concern to a vet.
The choice to eat meat is one of taste, not need. In Australia we are in the fortunate position of being able to make that choice. However markets and supermarkets will respond as consumers become more informed about food animal production. The cruelty involved in the production and slaughtering of animals for food is now a poorly kept secret. There is plenty of information for consumers to find out about this industry – see http://www.earthlings.com/ and http://www.foodincmovie.com/ . However many people find the graphic details just too much to stomach and would rather stay in a state of daily denial about the origins of the food on their plate. On the issue of ‘sustainability’ raised by Professor Lean; the long term sustainability of intensive animal rearing, with its resultant effects on global food supply and environmental damage, is dubious. Read Livestock’s Long Shadow from the FAO of the UN http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM
For respondents who in this forum who have ridiculed those who choose a vegan or vegetarian diet as extreme or unhealthy, the American Dietetic Association states, “that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.” This is also the position of the British Dietetic Association. People choose this diet for reasons of compassion, ethics, health and the environment. And for those who are using the tired old ‘emotion’ vs ‘rational reality’ as an argument against those who are expressing compassion for the suffering of animals used for food; compassion(along with courage and wisdom) is a universal moral quality which should not be dismissed so categorically.
Looking forward to further debate and discussion in public forums as these issues continue to unfold. Thank you again, Ruth.
about 1 year ago
Ridiculous for any academic funded by major commercial interests to claim no conflict of interest. Of course there is; same as there would be if a coorporately sponsored medical practitioner was to assert that tobacco is safe, or that the harms caused to babies by thalidomide were due to something else. Academic independence? Phooey! Cruelty is cruelty, plain and simple.
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth
My husband and I don’t eat meat at all, because we don’t want animals to be put to death to feed us when there are so many environmentally friendly, healthy, delicious and compassionate alternatives available such as lentils, soy products, vegetables and grains etc. I was born and bred on a dairy/beef farm, so I am well aware of farming practices.
Many friends, however, only buy meat that has been reared with compassion and not subjected to the cruel practices you describe in your article.
With ‘looming food shortages’, it would be more environmentally responsible and an efficient use of resources (as well as compassionate) for humans to eat the grains rather than using grain to feed animals for slaughter.
I agree with you that an increasing number of people care deeply about such matters.
If people new the ‘facts’ about where their meat and milk products come from and the suffering borne by voiceless animals, there would no doubt be more vegans in the world.
about 1 year ago
I have perused my email and see that you may have misunderstood part of it. Emails are easy to misunderstand. The line “This appears to be outside of the ethics of internet use” is referring to your subjective removal of persons who offend you in some way. Many people in this blog have been offended but we are all not suing each other. Maybe you are too new to this game.
Oh, and people generally declare their interests up front; you might find it useful to do this in future. That way we all know where we all stand. I am a meat eater, omnivore in fact, and married to a vegetarian. We both love animals but we value open communication more than anything. I hope you support this too.
about 1 year ago
Thanks David, and no journalist at News Corporation or indeed any reputable newspaper is allowed to accept any gifts of any kind from any source. This is considered bribery, and against journalistic ethics. Radio seems to have a system of “cash for comment” which is under review, print journalists at major newspapers do not. My only interest is health and animal welfare, declared upfront. I told Ian Lean when I interviewed him I had a bias, he talked to me knowing this and just about everyone who reads me knows that I am a Buddhist and come from a spiritual and compassionate perspective, except when I am pre-menstrual.
about 1 year ago
I would much prefer to have meat that is both drug free and from animals that are treated compassionately. If Coles’ marketing strategy is contributing to that then I hope it’s very successful.
about 1 year ago
Hello Ruth,
Thank you for your informative article. I gave up eating meat over 15 years ago and have never felt better for it, health wise and consciousness wise. Factory farming is both cruel and barbaric! The public need to be made aware of what they are actually consuming and more ethical and compassionate practices need to be adhered to.
about 1 year ago
Ruth
Please declare your interests
about 1 year ago
David, is that last comment meant to be your “public retraction and apology” for your defamatory claims against me, accusing me of corruption? If so we will be continuing this discussion by private correspondence.
about 1 year ago
I do not have a problem with the morality of meat eating but I find it abhorrent that animals are factory farmed with the economic benefit outweighing their right to a healthy pleasant life and as far as possible, a pain free death. In this vein I also object strongly to live animal export.
about 1 year ago
Diana, you said, “I do not have a problem with the morality of meat eating but I find it abhorrent that animals are factory farmed with the economic benefit outweighing their right to a healthy pleasant life and as far as possible, a pain free death. In this vein I also object strongly to live animal export.”
What evidence do you have that “factory farming” takes away a healthy, pleasant life and/or a pain-free death? My family operate a “factory farm” and our animals are well cared for and they are slaughtered humanely, as our industry has demanded throughout the last few decades.
Also, I presume that you also oppose the trucking of animals, if you oppose live export?
(Sorry, Ruth… I do not want to go off-topic, but many issues are being tied in together in the comments.)
about 1 year ago
So Ruth; I see you are not allowing Alice Armstrong to post any more; Is that because she asked you who was paying you for this article. This appears to be outside of the ethics of internet use. If you can’t keep your integrity in public what can you do except deceive people, and that is what you are doing.
I will ask you in her place; we know the Press is paying you and they thrive on controversy. Is Coles paying you too? The executives at Coles will use this post as an exercise to grab more customers through more emotive advertising.
about 1 year ago
I stopped Alice’s posts because she was being abusive and defamatory towards me. It was in her own interests given I don’t tolerate defamation of character and the reason I am moderating is to avoid any one else being defamed. As you intended, your post has now been published in a public forum open to millions, accusing me of corruption and deception. I am a journalist of high standing and 30 years experience. Do you wish to publicly retract and apologise?
about 1 year ago
This has turned into such a gutsy debate. I am watching it unfold with such interest. The thing that’s coming through for me is that by far the majority of consumers posting here are in favour of hormone free, free range meat. Is that because it’s only those who are passionate about animal welfare and health are posting here? Or is it a general consensus of the population? If so regulators, the farming community, livestock manufacturers and retails take note!
about 1 year ago
Ruth, you have stated above, “The thing that’s coming through for me is that by far the majority of consumers posting here are in favour of hormone free, free range meat.”
That’s not exactly a surprise. You set it up to be that way.
“A controversy is brewing and I need your comments for a letter to the meat industry. Would you prefer hormone-free, free-range meat or are concerns about food shortages more important than compassion to animals?”
You intended to send a letter to the meat industry, and you wanted all your activist readers to come on here and comment. You didn’t count on a counter perspective, did you? Your question as posed at the very top of this blog post would be considered “push polling” at best. Were you interested in facts at all, you would not have posed a mutually exclusive scenario.
Many animals in “free range” situations are in much worse shape than those in confined situations. We can all get better at what we do. I’m proud of operating a beef cattle feedlot which takes excellent care of animals, ensures better care of our environment, and continues to help feed the world.
Good care of the animals in our care and continuing to provide healthy, low-cost, nutrient-dense food for the world are NOT mutually exclusive.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, I would contend that the demographics are something like 5% strongly against hormones, 5% slightly less strongly for, 10% who are up for a reasoned argument, and 80% who don’t really care. But of course, if the 80% can claim that they eat hormone-free beef by simply shopping at their supermarket – then that’s probably a bonus.
about 1 year ago
If long term use of hormones are detrimental to humans, why would they be good for animals?
If prolonged use of hormones aren’t good for humans, why would long term ingestion of meat products containing hormones be good for us?
And if mother pigs routinely rolled on their offspring and killed them, nature would have selected them for extinction.
Someone wiser than myself once said something along the lines of the measure of how civilised a society is, can be seen in how they treat their weaker members. If we cage our pigs, force feed our chooks hormones and maltreat our animals in the process of turning them into lunch, how civilised can we possibly be?
And even if we don’t care about the welfare of animals, why would we possibly eat animals filled with hormones at the risk of our health?
about 1 year ago
Chris, you have the choice not to buy meat with hormones, there are none fed to chooks, forced fed or otherwise. HGP free beef is freely available at butcher shops & now Coles. Your questions lack logic especially when talking about different species and different hormones. Your statement about sows rolling on piglets doesn’t take into account artificial economic systems imposed by Governments that farmers have to make a little money to feed their own family.
about 1 year ago
Good on you Ruth, I agree with you. Apart from the cruelty involved in meat production, people should be eating a lot less meat for other reasons. Meat production is environmentally damaging (large amounts of methane gas produced, huge amounts of water and grain to feed the animals, which could be used to feed the hungry in third world countries).
Too much meat in the diet has been linked to cancer, particularly when growth hormones are added. Let’s look to those countries who eat a lot less meat and dairy products and have a low rate of cancer.
Unfortunately most people in western society take no notice of all the evidence which amazes me, who wouldn’t want to live a healthy and sustainable lifestyle and have a clear conscience???
about 1 year ago
Richard, I wish to give you a serve over your comment, I don’t believe that there is widespread cruelty by farmers to animals and I resent you implying as much.
And being environmentally damaging, surely this is another generalization. You point to methane emissions yet with cattle in rangeland grazing, a healthy carbon cycle results in the sequestration of more carbon than what the cattle emit. Grain is fed to but one portion of the cattle that ends up as beef on a dinner table. Then there is this lie being spread about how many liters of water per kilo of beef. This is a rigged figure; they have use all the rainfall over rangeland grazing lands when this water also sustains co-existing fauna and flora.
about 1 year ago
The majority of Australian beef is free range and grassfed. It is anything but a cruel system. Grain finishing is more the norm in North America and Europe so we are not putting huge amounts of grain down animals necks and what is, is probably classed as “feed grain” and our “chuck it out by the use by date” society would turn their noses up at it.
This type of production is environmentally friendlier than much of the grown food production. After 200 years of grazing on Cape York Peninsula and the Lake Eyre Basin both areas have, according to environmentalists enough of their “natural values” intact to be declared Wild Rivers and under that legislation most farming is banned or severely curtailed as being more damaging to the environment than grazing..
As for the methane: methane produced by animals is part of the natural biosystem.
about 1 year ago
In Richard’s defence, there is a clear distinction in world view here that needs to be a acknowledged. For some of us, cruelty is inherent in the decision to raise animals for premature and unnatural death. For others, this perspective will not be shared.
The discussion on this issue is thoroughly permeated with anger and opposing perspectives. We need to be able to divest ourselves of this anger – this heat -if the conversation is going to have value.
about 1 year ago
This is a difficult and complex debate and I applaud you, Ruth, for having the courage to embark upon it.
The issue wraps up several distinct but related issues into one – first and most fundamentally, what are the ethics of eating meat? second, what are the ethics of eating meat on a resource-strapped planet? third, how did we get this sense of entitlement about what should be ours to eat, in spite of the lengths required (and, arguably, cruelties inflicted) in pursuit of this?
The ethics of using drug company money to publish an open letter in defense of drug use by the meat industry is so clear cut an issue that I can hardly believe anyone attempted to justify it.
All I would say is this ….. look at your dog, or cat, and know that the joy, life, individuality, character and intelligence that you see in them is more than present in any pig. Ask yourself ….. do I have the right to curtail my dog’s / my cat’s right to their own existence and enjoyment of life for the personal and short-lived pleasure of taste and in order to eat something that is not nutritionally unique or essential to my existence?
Once you have answered the question in relation to your dog, you ought have answered it in relation to every animal available through your local supermarket. And if you do decide to eat your dog, please make sure it’s killed humanely even though that may mean that you have lost your own humanity.
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth…
Even though the profit motive is a likely consideration on the part of the supermarket chains, they are responding at last to consumer demands of organically produced food.
Professor Lean and his colleagues are promoting a
neo-conservative economics agenda in food production.
The same neo-conservative economic agenda is trying to sell us genetically modified food as a solution to perceived food shortages for the world’s population.
This same economic theory has produced the great financial crisis with its trillions of dollars debt bubble and we are promised an endless “phoney” war on terrorism to implement the published ne0-conservative agenda of total domination and control of all the world’s resources, minerals, soil, water, food, air, weather, outer space and cyber space.
And this agenda includes the control of “peaceful clean environment friendly nuclear electricity production”, as well as well as nuclear arms, which it has not ruled out the use thereof.
Witness the horrific consequences of the use of so-called depleted uranium weapons of severe genetic malformations in the offspring of human and animal populations where they have been used, Kosovo, Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq and now Libya (despite the denials) as well as in the offspring of returned soldiers.
In a review of a scholarly book by three Russian scientists entitled: “The Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment”, Karl Grossman, professor of journalism at the State University of New York/College at Old Westbury and host of the nationally syndicated TV program Enviro Close-Up published an interesting article on the website of Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences. He reports that between 1986 and 2005, some 985.000 people died as a result to exposure of this disaster and millions are still facing health problems.
More alarmingly, Karl Grossman reports that Alice Slater, representative in New York of the Nuclear Age Peace states:
“The collusive agreement between the International Atomic Energy Agency and the World Health Organization in which the WHO is precluded from publishing any research on radiation effects without consultation with the IAEA.”
WHO, the public health arm of the UN, has supported the IAEA’s claim that 4,000 will die as a result of the accident.
Dr. Sherman, speaking of the IAEA’s and WHO’s dealing with the impacts of Chernobyl, commented: “It’s like Dracula guarding the blood bank.” The 1959 agreement under which WHO “is not to be independent of the IAEA” but must clear any information it obtains on issues involving radioactivity with the IAEA has put “the two in bed together.”
Dear Ruth, a few years ago, your colleague Phillip Adams promoted The Australian with the slogans: Be an Informed Australian and Think Again.
Now, you won’t read the above article by professor Karl Grossman in The Australian. Think Again!
As Mark Twain put it: “If you don’t read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed.”
Heaving read The Australian since its inception, this newspaper which started out giving a fair range of reporting and opining ideas, is now a heavy, almost exclusive promoter of the neo-liberal and neo-conservative agenda.
One of the agenda’s motto’s is: “There is no alternative!”
While at the same time the promoters of the agenda are doing their level best to destroy the alternatives of organic food production and health promotion and the ideas that sustain them by all means possible, including the legal banning thereof.
The key to liberate ourselves from this neo-conservative straitjacket is to understand that credit creation is controlled by banking cartels, instead of democratically elected parliaments and government.
Lo and behold, the failing banking system has to be propped up with taxpayer dollars…, which are borrowed by “our” governments from these same banks!
It is truly amazing that the apparent majority of electors still subscribe to this Ponzi scheme.
The banking cartels own our governments and control our governments through the media. Our politicians know that they cannot become or remain our representatives without the consent and support of the media.
As soon as credit creation is once again controlled by our elected parliaments and governments, most problems such as war and the resulting pestilence and environmental degradation will rapidly abate and growing and distributing food for all becomes possible.
Remember we have been warned by one of the founding members of the US consitution, Thomas Jefferson:
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
And by President Franklin D. Roosevelt:
“The real truth of the matter is … that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the US since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
And by U.S. President Abraham Lincoln:
“As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.”
The Australian is now promoting neo-conservatism as the religion of the movers and shakers of the global agenda of the New World Order with a scientific and technological deterministic fervour.
about 1 year ago
Ruth,
That ‘rant’ is so off topic.
What we we discussing again?
about 1 year ago
Hello Ruth, at our farmers market in the western suburbs of Brisbane [Moggill] meat sold is straight from the farm. The farmers promote the free range, happy environment they have to raise their animals, pigs; lamb and beef, and despise the use of antibiotics and hormones. I hear customers talking to the farmers about how they want to know what kind of life these animals have had before they buy for their famillies. Yes it does cost more but it’s also a nicer flavour. There is absolutely no doubt there is a strong message that people care about how livestock is raised before they eat the meat.
We can eat a lot less meat and still be very healthy, no one believes that pumping animals full of hormones or antibiotics is good. Antibiotics which are very noticable in the beef feedlot industry is harmful to beast; land and human.
If anyone is really interested in the future and research on food then I suggest reading a book by the title ” The End of Food as we Know it” by Paul Roberts.
ISBN978-0-7475-9642-4
about 1 year ago
Erica, it is very pleasing that at your local farmers market you have had direct contact with the producers of the food that you purchase.
I’m afraid that I will have to take issue with the term too often used in this discussion, “pumping animals full of hormones or antibiotics”. Erica this does not happen. Some cattle are given a single HGP capsule under the skin of the ear, which is absorbed slowly. There is very little use of antibiotics & if given to a sick animal they can only be slaughtered after it has worn off.
It escapes me how you can say hormones are harmful to the land and I’m unaware of any firm results that show it harmful to cattle or humans. In any case if you don’t wish to eat cattle treated with HGP’s you can very easily buy the certified MSA product from butcher shops
about 1 year ago
For a regular writer in a national newspaper this article has errors of both fact and science, it is scrambled, with pigs and cattle all rolled into the same pen (or paragraph), shows no depth of analysis, uses emotive and unsubstantiated statements and turns a cynical marketing exercise by one of our supermarket duopoly into a virtue.
It does nothing to enlighten readers with facts but succeeds in demonising farmers.
HGP is not banned in Europe because of health concerns but because production there, unlike Australia, is subsidised and overproduction often results. Banning HGP is a way of curbing such excess production and reducing the amount of subsidy paid. However, since this is a trade barrier for countries like Australia it is more politically acceptable to claim it is a health issue.
This ban in Europe has lead to farmers using, not the extensively tested and regulated substances we have here, but some which are genuinely dangerous such as angel dust which have resulted in farmer deaths.
The only time that pigs are crated is for farrowing (giving birth) and immediately after.
HGP is not recommended for breeding stock and has nothing to do with growth due to lack of movement.
There has never been any scientific evidence that HGP treated cattle suffer.
Having said this, the majority of Australian cattle are grassfed (not in pens) and are not treated with HGP anyway. Much of this type of production would be what would comfortably be put into a box that is described as any or all of free range, organic, HGP free, antibiotic free, bio dynamic or any of the other catch phrases beloved of people who would like to think they know what they are talking about Much of this product is sold very cheaply, particularly in regional areas and there is no financial incentive for producers to go through the necessary paper trail to declare the product as any of these things on a broad scale and what is more it should not be necessary if established writers gave fair and balanced accounts of the major production system and did not allow red herrings from fifteen to twenty years ago which were then, not now, to enter the debate.
As to the ethics of HGP use not having been unnoticed by the board of Coles: I hope that all of the commentators on this article who say they are prepared to pay more have eschewed the $1 per litre homebrand milk which WILL eventually be passed back to dairy farmers in lower prices and supported the dearer branded milk.
about 1 year ago
Thank you Battling Farmer for your clarity of opinion; this emotive and misleading hogwash is damaging to evidence-based discussion; it was started by Ruth Ostrow and many are jumping on the bandwagon: this is not a good way to solve problems.
Has anyone thought what the Coles executives will do with this information? They will note that the majority have an emotional tie to the outcome i.e. no hormones in meat, and will make their ads more emotional to grab more customers.
This is almost a cynical exercise and Ruth Ostrows’ input is emotionally unbalanced and subjective. I wonder if she is being paid by Coles? She is paid by the Press and the press thrives on controversy by turning one group against another for their own ends.
about 1 year ago
There you go David and Alice, here is the defamatory post you are both urging me to publish, accusing me of being paid by Coles — a well-respected journalist of 30 years standing taking bribes in order to write a story in The Australian. I don’t take kindly to libel. I have asked David for an immediate public retraction and apology. I ask the same of you Alice.
about 1 year ago
Thanks struggling farmer, and please all farmers and meat producers send me your points of view! This is a debate, a public airing, and I want all information out on the table. Ruth
about 1 year ago
Here is another piece of “food for thought” for consumers who want meat production methods to change.
Such change inevitably will cost the farmer, in terms of reduced production efficiency and also in capital investment to build new buildings or convert old ones. Where is that money to come from?? The return on investment for farming averages 2%. This means that profit margins are very thin, and in adverse time (eg. droughts, floods) losses are made. Few farmers, particularly small ones, are able to amass capital reserves. This is why the number of smaller, family farms has decreased so dramatically over the past 30 years. How about borrowing the money??? Sorry, the banks will laugh in your face if you cannot show an increased profit coming from the invested money – it would be a risky loan for them. So the only possibility is if prices increase to cover the increased costs. Unfortunately, farmers are what’s know as “price takers”. That means that prices are determined by the “market” (which in Australia is 80% controlled by Coles & Woolwoths), and you either take that price, or you can’t sell your product. When prices start to edge up because supply is tight or demand is good, wholesalers just go out and buy in meat from overseas, thus keeping the lid on the domestic price. This also happens when the Aussie dollar is strong, making imported meat relatively cheap in comparison.
If Australian farmers take the leap and make costly changes in production methods, but overseas producers do not have to incur the same costs, there is no “level playing field”, and the Aussies will simply be forced out of business.
I know that many people might say “yay” to the shutting down of Aussie intensive livestock farms, but the fact is that there is a demand for meat that would still be met by retailers – only now they would be sourcing the product from overseas farms that still use all the methods that consumers disapprove of, nothing would have changed for the welfare of the animals producing the meat – it would just be that it wasn’t happening in Australia. And meanwhile, Aussie businesses and jobs would have been needlessly lost.
The only way I can see out of this dilemma is for the Govt or retailers or consumers to say ” This is how we want meat to be produced in Australia. Therefore we will set these standards for our farmers, but we will also require that any imported meat is raised by exactly the same standards. And we will inspect and monitor imports to ensure this is so.” This would ensure that the local market was not undermined, and would give farmers and lenders some reasonable confidence in investing in change.
Unfortunately, such policies are always challenged as “protectionist”, “anti free trade” etc, so there is virtually no chance that it will ever happen.
So, does anyone else have any bright ideas about ways out of this dilemma?
PS. For anyone who thinks that pig farmers are making huge profits – the average price per kilo that farmers currently receive is $2.70. I urge you to compare that to the retail prices that you pay, and ponder about who is really making all the profits….
about 1 year ago
Ruth, thank you for your article on feeding hormones to food animals and reporting the conditions they are forced to live in. The fact that HGP’s are banned in Europe speaks volumes. Money is involved in medical circles so of course they will not commit. Just look around at the myriad sick, fat people in society and you can make a good guess at the reason. If they were to eat less meat they would be more healthy and it would go a long way to stave off ‘the looming food shortage’ Prof Lean predicts. He obviously has never seen animals in an intensive piggery or cattle lot. Their misery and fear is palpable. Then people eat their flesh.
Free range pig farmers would disagree with the statement that mother pigs would roll on their young and reduce the pork production. A confined mother pig is unable to turn to reach a piglet that has strayed away from her teats so it dies. His statement ‘What mother would not undergo a little discomfort to ensure that more of her children survive?’ astounds me. Confinement and cement floor versus straw and space – do you really think a pig would choose the former? Pigs are smart – obviously smarter than some Professors.
Chris Adams
about 1 year ago
Yes Ruth I do feel deeply about this to comment – that I agree with you. We must treat the animals that we eat with compassion and kindness, so that they have a happy and healthy drug-free life before they go to the slaughter house to end up on my families’ dinner table! Professor Lean you are totally wrong…I know the facts now(thanks Ruth) and I loudly say “NO” to feeding hormones to our animals and to treating them cruelly…no no no!!
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth
How could eating food pumped with growth (and death) enhancing hormones be a healthy option in any sane persons mind? I particularly distrust all large supermarkets and their motives .. look at the current milk debacle. My partner is a regular meat eater and I search high and low to find organic or at least grass fed, free range options. There is a great natural and often touted but never really marketed properly, option – and that is roo meat. It’s abundant, sustainable and incredibly good for you.
When cooked up at home in full view, darling’s reaction is oh ‘roadkill’. (When it’s placed next to dog and cat food in supermarkets – what message does that send to the consumer?). However I have had great response to my sautéed creation of finely sliced meat with, chilli, garlic or Indian spices ( you guessed it – roo meat!!) Go figure, mind over matter.
Could we not do a fantastic, realistic marketing campaign on this and similar products. (Croc steaks are delicious!!) In the best restaurants in North Qld Croc, Roo and Emu meats are deemed exotic and priced accordingly.
Don’t even get me started on the plight of pigs. Just a photo of the piglets misery strategically placed near the supermarkets bacon section – might just get some people thinking!
about 1 year ago
Professor Lean and his colleagues remind me of John Gummer, the UK Agriculture Minister, who encouraged his 5 year old daughter to eat a beefburger in front of TV cameras, to show the public that British beef was ‘safe’. The world knows the story of BSE.
Anyone wishing to consume large quantities of meat, poultry and fish should have the opportunity to do so with some degree of safety.
Having lived in the UK during BSE, factory farming with its totally inappropriate feeding, salmonella in chickens and eggs, genetic modification and the disgusting practices used to produce cheap food, I continually search for food produced naturally. I had hoped for better when I returned to Australia . . .
Professor Lean and his colleagues appear to be content that funding from drug companies takes precedence over health issues. If HGP is already banned in Europe it must be based on scientific evidence.
Coles and others should be encouraged to source food that is certified as produced humanely and without contamination, so that people have a choice.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth 10 years ago I gave up buying or consuming pork after a documentary my family and I watched by chance one Sunday afternoon. We were all so saddened and appalled it changed the way I shop and consume meat. We always make sure where possible to know how the animal lived (free range) etc and that if eating beef it isn’t grain fed or spent the last few months of it’s life force fed. I feel in today’s society we are all spoiled for choice, the clever packaging and immediacy of food has numbed us. We don’t need to eat meat everyday but I’m sure most families do because it’s easier than learning a few clever vegetarian dishes or dissapointing the family. But we’d get used to it.
about 1 year ago
It is good to see the plight of intensive factory farmed animals so openly. Millions of animals in Australia suffer in shocking conditions. There is no such thing as “humane slaughter.”
There are 3 times more cattle on our planet than people.
Growing crops for animal feed is depriving third world counties if basic food for human consumption.
The run off from piggeries is the worst polution in the world.
For the sake of the planet, peoples health and the animals, please consider a plant based diet.
Plant based food has no cholestrol, has very little fat and is full of fibre. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease and some cancers would be a thing of the past.
about 1 year ago
I have felt very strongly about this matter for years and only buy free range eggs and chicken as I believe that animals kept in cages is inhumane. Thank you for your article.
about 1 year ago
Our humanity can be judged on the way we treat those more vulnerable than ourselves. The treatment of many farm animals would be classified as torture in human terms and that should be enough for us to agree that it is totally unacceptable. If the average consumer was informed about the suffering animals undergo on their way to the supermarket, they would be up in arms. In this information age it is our responsibility to find out and to take action. Coles’ stance on hormones in meat is a start – albeit one which they wouldn’t have taken if it hadn’t benefited their bottom line – but it is only the tip of the iceberg. What about all the eggs labelled ‘free range’ when they are anything but? Supermarkets need to work with the RSPCA and other agencies to apply a strict, transparent and enforceable code of ethics to all their producers. Yes, this will push prices up. But the fact that the majority of meat eaters are complicit in the systematic torture of animals renders efforts to keep prices down through barbaric and inhumane practices unsustainable, immoral and unhealthy.
about 1 year ago
I am disgusted, but not surprised, at the avaricious attitude of the veterinary drug companies and the industry funded researchers.
As for the veterinarians, there will always be significant numbers who have chosen that career path purely to support the animal agriculture industry. Their job is to help the meat, dairy and egg businesses to minimise their costs and maximise turnover and profits. I am sick and tired of hearing the industry propaganda. Any reasonable thinking person knows full well that intensive production and the use of growth hormones and antibiotics is cruel, unhealthy and only for the benefit of the industry.
If the meat industry and their veterinarians really think this is so acceptable and humane, then they should open the factory farm and abattoir doors and invite regular visits and tours, including school excursions and media scrutiny. I suspect the queues wouldn’t be very long though as most consumers couldn’t stomach the brutal inconvenient truth.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth,
Congratulations on your article!
I don’t often put pen to paper, as the saying goes. However, wanted to reiterate what you are saying.
For some time, I have been purchasing lamb in preference to beef, and looking only for grass fed beef. According to my cattle growing country friends, lot fed animals live in horrific conditions, and are moved closer to the designated departure paddock so as to mimimise the chances of broken legs prior to slaughter!
I also buy only free range chickens and eggs. However, I suspect that sometimes the labeling is erroneous! Or is that just plain lies!
Pork! The ultimate in misinformation! Packaged in Australia using Australian and imported ingredients!
Good on Coles for starting the ball rolling. Maintain your rage, Ruth. I, and my family and friends support you!
about 1 year ago
In the same way that a doctor’s primary responsibility is toward the life and welfare of his patient, so too should the responsibility of the vetinarian be towards the life and welfare of animals under thier care. The attitude displayed is that animals exist simply for the benefit of human(un)kind. That animals can and do suffer does not appear to be a concern to the vets who put their name to this advertisement. That is the ethical side of the issue but there is a simpler reason for exposing the plain stupidity of these vets and the pharmaceutical companies.
Firstly, the idea that there is a looming food shortage in this or any other first world country is simply ludicrous. We have a surfeit of food, widespread obesity and other diseases related to excess consumption.
Secondly, these hormones (as well as all the other drugs like antibiotics) pass through the animals and end up as waste entering our streams and rivers. The effects on amphibious wildlife are already being seen with hermaphoditism one well documented result. Worse, though, is that we draw our water from the same rivers into which animals and ourselves are eliminating these drugs. In other words, we are , yet again, polluting our own nest. It is just plain stupid. The Europeans figured this out a long time ago.
about 1 year ago
I am so pleased that this issue is finally spreading through the community. I made a decision about 2 years ago to only buy free range bacon, and if I can’t get it, go without (naturally the same for chickens nad eggs). I love eating meat but I don’t want it to have suffered. We do need to reduce our meat consumption effect on the environment but that shouldn’t encompass causing cruelty.
about 1 year ago
What food shortage? Do we need all that meat? What about the amount of grain fed to these animals just so there can be lots of meat around? The animal ethics issues under discussion (intensive animal farming, supported by hormones in the food) is about providing lots of meat. If that demand wasn’t there, then the ethics issues would be less.
about 1 year ago
It’s truly inhumane the way the meat industry encourages caged animals and poultry, hormone injected and push-fed animals. Free range is the only way to go and local free range is worth fighting for. As a non-vegetarian true carnivore, I can find free range chickens and pigs, sheep are, I think, always free ranging but I have difficulty verifying that I am buying beef from grass-fed free range cattle. The information is not available it seems.
Like the previous commentator, I would not buy the alternative, but opt for vegetarian.
about 1 year ago
I find it interesting that so many people have commented here saying that they buy free range pork. In fact there are only a handful of small free range pig farms in Australia, (the climate, land type, planning laws etc make it difficult to make a living farming pigs outdoors in this country), so where is all this product coming from???
Again, passing and enforcing proper labelling laws would be the key to this puzzle.
It would be good if consumers asked more questions of government and retailers (including sellers at farmers market) about this issue.
about 1 year ago
We only eat ‘Free Range” meat / eggs now. I also prefer to buy Australian whereever possible. I would also be happy to pay more if I knew the farmers were getting a larger cut, and would prefer more profits to go to them than the Supermarkets. If these products are not available we would not buy the alternative but have vegetarian options. So many people I speak to do not consider where the meat has come from. We need accuarate, independently sourced information for people to make informed choices.
about 1 year ago
I am certainly not opinionated either way on this issue. But on the one hand, we have an industry body protecting their own turf, on the other hand a supermarket chain responding to public opinion.
The first of these has an ulterior motive. The other doesn’t. Coles may be practising a public relations stunt, but at least it does this with a degree of objectivity. So I come down on the side of “no hormones” – but with objective detachment, not because I am driven by an unswerving passion.
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth,
You have asked for opinion on whether we should raise animals for human consumption in a “drug free and compassionate” way.
The short answer in case you are pressed for time is YES.
The long answer goes more like this. Humans have the capacity to exercise the power of life and death over most creatures on Earth, including themselves. Coupled with this capacity is a deeply entrenched assumption, reinforced from generation of children to another, that humanity is the most important life form to be found on the planet, and that animals are ranked below it in a subordinate hierarchy of “importance” depending on perceived sentience, productive capacity and ability to satisfy humanity’s needs.
In short, animals are perceived to be there for our use and do not have any right to resist the way we choose to use them. The Bible says so. Getting an affirmative answer to your question from people with this view will be difficult.
There is no evading the question of whether this is a “right” view or not. It is a question of ethics, and the question you have asked requires an answer to an ethical question before any subsequent decision on whether hormones and confinement should be a part of the experience of animals under our control.
If, however, we have difficulty with this ethical question and must resort to a purely mechanistic one, we have to try to get there by disentangling the disingenuous argument advanced by drug companies, food retailers and animal “manufacturers”. These arguments appear to be a posited threat to humanity’s food supply and a consequent need to make the business of animal manufacture more efficient. Both are rubbish. Any mad scramble to feed more of ourselves will not see us maximising bacon production, and is in fact more likely to see us resorting to vegetable foods.
These will become more and more pressing questions as we continue to carpet the Earth with more versions of ourselves. This is nothing like cogent argument leading anywhere I grant you. But at the heart of your question are much bigger issues, reaching from our failure to control our own reproductive capacity, our hubris, our ignorance of what keeps the Earth in comfortable stasis and writ most large in the dialogue quoted in your column – our total lack of compassion for anything living that is not human or which does not bond with us emotionally, and the complete disconnectedness of most humans with the natural world.
Tony
about 1 year ago
No one really talks about the average consumer here, where price counts. Producing products efficiency and in a sustainable manner, both ecologically and humanly is the farmers goal. Lets not vilify farmers asa being some evil element of society, lets work with them, not against them.
about 1 year ago
Michael, well said cobber. Australia is a nation of diverse people, diverse industry, and good people.
When mutual respect is lost, and common sense does not prevail, then we as a Nation have lost all – including respect for all living things. There is a balance, and many of us have achieved this, others are striving to achieve this.
Encouragement, not vilification is what is needed – c’mon Aussies c’mon.
about 1 year ago
“For every person in Australia, there are 1.5 cattle, 5 sheep, 25 chickens and various other livestock and fish. This huge population of livestock is largely hidden from urban dwellers, but imagine if every person on a busy city street was accompanied by their share of cattle, sheep, chickens, pigs, fish, etc. Now that would be traffic chaos!
It’s not the 22 million people in Australia, it’s the 700 million+ livestock, as a result of our western appetite, that are ravaging our environment and climate.”
Taken from the world preservation foundation paper presented at the Cancun climate summit.
This paper uses the Australian and Queensland governments own research to make the further case that Livestock practices are the true cause of climate change and that if we were to give up our dependance on meat consumption we would not only greatly reduce the impact of climate change but also have enough food to feed three times the worlds population.
Another excerpt from that same pattern reads. “The United Nations Environment Programme released a significant report in June 2010 identifying agriculture and our food consumption as one of the most significant drivers of environmental pressures, especially in loss of biodiversity, climate change, water use and toxic emissions. The report stated: “A substantial reduction of [climate/environmental] impacts would only be possible with a substantial worldwide diet change, away from animal products.”
about 1 year ago
G’day Dean,
Do you and Ruth’s other contributors here know that every Australian farmer feeds 150 people? I am glad that I help to feed people, that is a privilege, as is to care for the animals that feed and clothe us all.
about 1 year ago
Eating meat is a privilege, after all an animal has given up its life for us. At the very least, they should be treated humanely. I’m ashamed to be human when I see some of the cruel practises routinely used on animals in our care. They deserve to have a natural life.
about 1 year ago
Prof Lean’s comments about Coles’ announcement that it was promoting hormone-free meat indicates to me that it is he and the other 35 VETS that do not understand what an increasing number of Australian’s look for when purchasing food: Australian grown, non GM, drug and chemical free. The increasing popularity of farmer’s markets, free range instead of cage eggs plus free range & organically grown chicken, pork, etc illustrate that this demand exists and is growing. I fully support Coles in their attempts to offer consumer’s a choice when purchasing meat.
I also try reduce my food-miles by purchasing only Australian grown food. The Australian Government pushes the need for everyone to use less energy in order to reduce global warming but ignores what to me is the most obvious way which is to reduce the energy used in importing food. There is little that cannot be grown in Australia. The recent importation of apples from China should not occur again. Australian farmers need to be supported. Where will our food come from if they leave the farm?
about 1 year ago
Thanks everyone for an extraordinary two days of debate. I hope we keep going all week, despite our divergent views. How amazing to have these things aired and how important to learn facts none of us knew even if they contradict formerly held views. I am off to bed now and won’t do any more moderation tonight. Do write as they will stay in pending till tomorrow morning. I will keep blogging this topic all week so stay posted to my blogsite and to the letters that keep pouring into this comment page. I will eventually print your comments off in a document and send it to relevant decision makers. Particularly want to ask Coles about points raised by A Stevens. So lets keep this going, tell friends, tell enemies. Praise my point of view, or damn me, tell me off, educate us all. We’ll be back tomorrow. Ruth
about 1 year ago
Thanks Ruth,
We are from opposite sides of the fence but by us posting here there have been some gems of information.
It is not a one size fits all arguement- battery hens and chicken meat production- to me is far from ideal but if someone in the industry can come on and give us an insight -well we can all benefit.
Likewise I know very little about sow stalls but the vet and A Stevens have convinced me that there are very good reasons for what they do and 4-6 weeks v their whole life is selective information to influence a desired response.
I can speak from long and broad experience about cattle, sheep and wool and have been trying to balance the comments with what I know.
I am a real softie and hate the thought of what happens to my animals- but they are animals and they don’t know. None of us humans know when judgement day is and all I can hope for is for it to be quick and clean- something that I am satisfied is happening to my animals.
about 1 year ago
We could eat each other; it would solve the population problem and the hunger problem in one!
about 1 year ago
Alice finally showing a sense of humour?
about 1 year ago
Factory Farming is cruel and barbaric, and how can any one claim that consuming meat with hormones can be good for you! I will buy neither, ever again!
about 1 year ago
On Anzac day we can only be thankful that we have the freedom & the relative wealth to choose what food we wish to eat and give our opinions even if they are unfounded, angry rubbish such as this one made by Ali.
about 1 year ago
I do not eat red meat or pork but I do not agree to feeding growth hormones to pigs and cattle or causing discomfort to cattle. However, I diverse – Prof Lean states that there is no evidence that growth hormones cause cancer in humans when hormones are fed to cattle to fatten them but what he is not saying is that growth hormones in meat and foods are contributing to the obesity epidemic in humans and this is being kept quiet. Also the treatment of Wagu beef cattle is not good.
about 1 year ago
Ruth,
We are farmers that market there own meat direct from the farm to the “housewife” and promote and sell our product with no added growth hormones, we feel that we are doing the right thing, as do the majority of farmers who market direct to the public, with regards to animal welfare.
All of our cattle are born and raised on our property with due regard to the health and well being of the herd. If we didn’t do that, we would not have a product that was worthy of selling to the public.
The large chains are only copying what we as farmers have been marketing for years, good, lean, clean, healthy beef. The only problem is that it will be the farmers that will end up paying for the supermarkets promotion as the feedlots will not be able to produce the product for the right price, unless they screw the farmers over with cheaper prices for thier calves, hay, silage and grain. The alternative is to import beef from overseas and how will we be able tell how it was raised and treated and what the animal husbandry was like.
If the meat eating public do not support the Australian Beef Producer that is what will happen. When the supermarkets can import any product cheaper than they can buy it locally, it will be imported, as with other products that they sell.
Pigs are very intelligent animals and if they are not happy you get a very ordinary product. Treated right you cannot beat them. As far as free range pigs are concerned, how would you feel being kept outside in the extreme Australian weather without any clothes on. Not a pleasant thought is it!
Some of your correspondants are very ill informed and they make a lot of noise, also some of them do not want to know what is actually going on, because it does not suit there ideals or objectives.
about 1 year ago
Just a thought for those of you who are vegetarian or vegan. We are lucky to live in an affluent country where we have a wide choice of food types. Unfortunately this is not universal. In much of the world, acquiring enough food to survive is a daily battle. Travel to many third world countries, and you will see people happily eating any kind of meat they can lay their hands on, including wild / endangered animals. In many cases, it is not simply calories that are lacking, it is protein. If we do not eat animals or their products, we must source protein from plants.
I once read a very interesting thesis, which calculated that although the world population could be fed from plants sufficiently in respect of calories, there is not enough suitable land in the world to grow enough protein crops to sustain the present population.
Perhaps this would be a good problem to solve, before we move away from farming animals.
about 1 year ago
The Australian Collaborative Land Use Mapping Program or ACLUMP shows that urban settlement and mining combined take up less than one percent of our land area, livestock grazing uses 64%, and all cropping and horticulture uses only 5%.
about 1 year ago
The land that is grazed would be used for nothing were it not used by cattle, sheep and goats (and kangaroos and goannas!). That land is not suitable for cropping. Animals convert that roughage to protein. This helps feed the world, but it also helps to manage vast areas of rangeland that would otherwise be prone to fire and infestations by weeds and feral animals.
about 1 year ago
“The Australian Collaborative Land Use Mapping Program or ACLUMP shows that urban settlement and mining combined take up less than one percent of our land area, livestock grazing uses 64%, and all cropping and horticulture uses only 5%.”
I will call this – produce maps Sir, I call you misconstrue r of the truth!
I too Sir have had vast experiences with mapping of Land uses in Australia, bio-region by bio-region, Sir, your information is grossly inaccurate – and therefore harmful to this discussion in openness and transparency!
To be blunt, your maths and that of realities do not add up! They cannot – i detest this blatant inaccuracies being posted. I do often wonder if they are true mistakes, or truly here to mislead good people!
about 1 year ago
I am happy to respond to your column in the Weekend Australian Magazine/ April 23-24 2011 as it is something I have long felt strongly about. I am a retired Veterinary surgeon who worked in a mixed rural practice for more than four decades. Our predominant rural interest was cattle. I was disappointed when I read Prof. Lean’s comments in the press. My memories of him are from long ago when he he was young and just starting out. He impressed me as a sensible and practical veterinary nutritionist.
I find the use of the kind of drugs forbidden to athletes to force production from animals inhumane and repugnant. I find all forms of intensive animal production repugnant not only on humane grounds but also because many of the feeds used in this production could be used directly in human nutrition much more efficiently. Whether or not organic forms of production produce a superior product is not settled, but it is my observation that the healthiest and happiest livestock are managed this way. I believe the kinder and superior care they receive accounts for this. Such farms are also in general more sustainably managed.
about 1 year ago
Ruth. Thank you for your column and for shedding light on this issue.
It is easy to see the motivations of large drug companies and meat producers in this food production scenario and in the comments posted above – profit and financial gain. Their raison d’etre is to produce profit for shareholders. Unfortunately as is the case in many scenarios politically that these strongly influential groups continue to overlook welfare, compassion or other human needs in the pursuit of those financial gains. We know that a vegetarian diet is a more sustainable and efficient option to feed growing human populations in terms of water, land and resource use.
Pigs and other livestock should not be kept and slaughtered in conditions of great suffering as you describe. We wouldn’t cage, inject or slaughter other humans and so why should we allow and encourage it in relation to other animal species. Meat production is possible without cages, injections and poor animal welfare conditions.
Companies that understand and move towards a more integrated, compassionate and sustainable business model will ultimately do better and should be encouraged. As you say a drug free and compassionate solution is urgently needed while we move to more sustainable and compassionate long term food production methods.
Thanks again Ruth for your views and efforts.
about 1 year ago
I have always believed things were awful in abattoir-slaughterhouse’s but didn’t know the facts. Having now read some of these posts, I know can see it is worse than I imagined. I am so glad I gave up meat years ago.
about 1 year ago
So you would punish a majority for the few rebels? Shame on you! This is supposed to be a transparent discussion to get facts out.
Where are your links to substantiate your post? Where are the links above to substantiate your claims?
Ruth, do the majority of your posters actually despise primary producers?
I am now concerned about some of the misinformation on this discussion, and further the lack of evidence.
Are you able to clarify with peer reviewed and unbiased information what some of your posters say? As it appears they are not able to do this.
Information sharing is imperative we would all agree.
Thank you.
about 1 year ago
Life is all about Balance – and when we are exploiting animals which we are by taking them from their natural environment and putting them into one we can control, the Balance is gone. No one benefits but least of all the animals. Anything ‘intensive’ is going to have a short life or be severely damaged, either mentally or physically. For those of you who ‘choose’ to eat meat, and dismiss the graphic cruelty and disassociate yourself from the reality of what it is you are actually eating – this could be at your peril. We have lost sight of living in harmony, and life is about how much money we can make from an animal, an object, etc – so tell me, are these proposterous proposals going to benefit your health?? Make an informed choice – ONE person can make a difference, Let that ONE person be YOU.
about 1 year ago
Just reread A Steven’s comments. A must read. So knowledgeable and highlights all the dilemmas in this complex situation. Also a more balanced view on the retailers like Cole’s position on exported meat. Thanks so much A Stevens.
about 1 year ago
Ruth,
Thank you for your article about the cruel treatment of farm animals and the cynical marketing exercise of the veterinary scientists. The public need to be informed about the inhumane practice of keeping sows – intelligent, sensitive and sociable animals – in tiny crates, and the suffering of hormone-fed cattle.
Gradually more and more people are being made aware of their plight due to people such as yourself and are demanding more compassionate and ethical practices.
I applaud Coles and now Woolworths for taking a stand in this direction.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, thank you for seeking our comments. I gave up eating meat simply because I can’t support the cruelty of mainstream meat production. Meat is resource intensive and we are loosing forests to grazing land. A vegetarian diet is healthy, cheap and better for the planet. If we must eat another species then let us treat them with respect for their short lives. Humans believe they are the most advanced species… yet our disregard for another’s suffering suggests otherwise.
about 1 year ago
Thanks Ruth for this topic. No abattoir is going to let you film. I’ve been in many and cameras are always forbidden. I’ve also been on hundreds of animal farms on four continents, from intensive factories to free range and there is no such thing as humane animal farming.
The almost 7 billion humans on the planet now kill 58 billion land animals and between 1-3 trillion sea animals EVERY year and our population is growing. Planet Earth can’t sustain this (humans reigning supreme at the top of the food chain) much longer. The seas are dying, the climate is breaking down around us and we’re still obsessed with our ‘freedom of choice’. With humans, why is it always all about us and what we want?
If we don’t have to kill someone else to live why do we? Our violence is our peril.
Vegan documentaries are on the horizon, we’ll be seeing and learning about veganism more and more as the clock ticks. It’s the only way forward so more of us can live.
about 1 year ago
Patty
You must be young ,impressionable and nieve. I can remember sitting in senior class in 1975 and a teacher delivering a bit of philosophy-
“China is one day going to reach 1 Billion population and that if they all stomped on the ground together that they would upset the earths orbit and the world will be running out of food!”
Well they are nearly 1.4 Billion and are a net exporter of food- a fair bit will be making it’s way back here if we shut Australia down!
about 1 year ago
You’re wrong on all the above Rob. I’m 61, idealistic not impressionistic, and not naive. I’ve got a science degree and research this topic vigorously, though I’m not a scientist. But even our own Australian scientists (via the EPA) have worked out that if we all consume as much as we do here in Victoria we would need more than four planet earths to sustain it.
While we’re all discussing whether the animals people eat should have hormones fed to them or not another headline reaches our front pages: “New killer bug could beat antibiotics”. Again the scientists warn us that the efficiency of antibiotics has been declining for the past 30 years and it’s going to get much worse.
Do people realise that animals are pumped with antibiotics every day in their food? Without antibiotics the billions of animals we globally cram into windowless sheds would all get much sicker much quicker (and before the animal industry can rush them to slaughter). Payback is on the way, I just wish people would start making the connection for both their own health and the animals.
btw, Forks over Knives (which features Dr Colin Campbell, author of the China Study mentioned by some people in this discussion) makes it’s NYC premiere on April 26. It will help people make the health connection of a plant based diet.
about 1 year ago
Patty, there is no way that you have researched this topic vigorously when you make statements that are clearly wrong. HGP’s in beef cattle are not the same thing as antibiotics. HGP’s aren’t fed to cattle; they are implanted under the skin of the ear in a slow release capsule. What animals are “pumped with antibiotics daily”? These haven’t been in the poultry industry for decades. I believe that the lamb & pork industries are the same as the beef industry where antibiotics are only given to sick animals under a recorded, audited accreditation program & animals can’t be slaughter until the antibiotics have left the system. Billions of animals in windowless sheds, oh come on Patty that has to be a gross exaggeration.
“Payback is on the way”, Patty is this a threat against the life & property of farming families?
about 1 year ago
Rick,
Yes, the “payback is on the way” is always something that every farmer has to live with, and it does happen.
Just like a poster above by the name of David tried to bully and intimidate me.
People who do such things are cowards, and if a farmer turned around and said to poster on here, farmers are going to get “pay back on them” could you imagine the outrage?!
That is why the Senators called the inquiry last year, it encompassed bullying from people just like on this thread
about 1 year ago
Ruth
If you believe what you wrote and i will repost it here just to remind you of what I am refering to.
” As for hormones existing in milk you are making me laugh. The same cows are fed hormones to make them lactate. You must think we are stupid.”
If you believe that then you must be stupid.
It is illegal to administer hormones to dairy cows in Australia
and so do not pull the good standards of Australian dairy farmers down to the low practices of overseas farmers.
If you wanted to inform your readers you would be telling them to support Australian produced food before touching any overseas product that does not have many of the quality controls Australian food does.
about 1 year ago
Hi responded twice to this one and said: In Australia we thankfully don’t use BST, however, BST (or bovine somatotropin), a hormone used to increase milk production is used in many countries of the world which is a major health issue. I just pray that industry lobbiests don’t get this one overturned on the basis of “no evidence hormones lead to cancer”
about 1 year ago
Research shows that pigs are more intelligent than dogs, but would we eat our much-loved family pet? No, of course not! So what is the difference? Animals are sentient beings and deserve our compassion and protection.
Animal lovers should unite, if we don’t voice our disgust at so-called modern farming practices then who will? Farm animals deserve to be treated with kindness – Australians, please show you care by leaving the pork off your fork – and, better still, enjoying a meat free diet. As someone who has been vegetarian for over 20 years, I can vouch for the significant and long-term health benefits.
Thank you Ruth for giving voice to this important issue.
about 1 year ago
Continued…. Sow stalls are another matter. There are 2 types of stalls – farrowing crates and gestation stalls. Farrowing crates are used to protect young piglets (1.5kg at birth) from crushing by their mothers (average weight 300kg). They are designed to make the sow lie down in a slow, front to back manner, rather than leaning against a wall and flopping down, squashing piglets in the process. They also keep the sow safely away from the “creep” area, which has an electric heat lamp for the piglets to keep warm. Crates do not prevent contact with the piglets – if they did, how would the piglets suckle??Without crates, mortality of piglets ranges from 10% to 100%. Sows are kept in theses crates only for their 3 week lactation. There has been 40 years of research and trials looking for effective alternatives to farrowing crates – so far none has been found. The dilemma here is whose “welfare” is more important – the sow or the piglets?
Gestation stalls are used during the sow’s pregnancy. In Australia, over 90% of farms only keep sows in gestation stalls for the first 4-6 weeks of their pregnancy, which allows individual feeding and protection from bullying by other sows while the pregnancy is established. The sows are then moved into group pens. (Hang on a minute, how come we never see those in the videos from the Animal Activists? Surely they couldn’t be editing their material so it only shows what they want you to see?!) Other countries, including the USA, Canada and most of Europe, keep the sows in gestation stalls for 100% of their pregnancy.
We could abandon use of crates, go along with the increased piglet crushing, have a (say) 30% decrease in production, spend millions on converting and extending our farm buildings in order to house sows in alternative type penning, and just put our prices up to cover the extra costs, right? Wrong. The supermarkets just go out and buy imported meat, produced in countries that use crates and therefore have lower costs/ higher production levels. Already, 80% of processed pork products available for sale in Australia is imported.
In fact, the Australian Pork Industry voted recently to voluntarily phase out the use of gestation stalls by 2017. They were optimistic that given Coles position on stalls, they would have the support of the retail trade, consumers and maybe even the government. Fat chance! The government will not pass or enforce any meaningful labeling laws, so consumers are unable to determine where and under what conditions meat is produced. Consumers generally say that they want to “buy Australian, welfare friendly etc” but when it comes to the checkout, the vast majority buy the cheapest, imported product. And even Coles will not undertake to buy only Australian, stall-free meat. They have admitted that they will continue to stock products made by companies such as Primo, Don, Hans, which use almost exclusively imported meat.
So where the heck is a farmer supposed to go from here? Bankrupt if you do, damned if you don’t.
about 1 year ago
Thank you A Stevens for these informed couple of comments that you have posted. Its good to hear from someone with first hand knowlege of the day to day running of piggeries here in Australia.
about 1 year ago
‘Already, 80% of processed pork products available for sale in Australia is imported.’
Did you read that people? What is the reason?
You the consumers, buy on price.
The OECD of which Australia is a member spends over US$300 billion a year on subsidies direct to farmers. For some in the EU that is 30% of their income.
Australia does not pay direct subsidies to its farmers, nor a the indirect subsidies, like R & D worth a mention as they are declining.
Australia is currently negotiating FTAs with many countries, including China.
I apologise, Ruth, for going slightly off topic, but really, for most of your contributors their understanding of food production starts and finishes on a supermarket shelf and their choice of product, is determined by price.
about 1 year ago
Roger, I believe your comments to certainly be relevant to this discussion.
It must be acknowledged the cost of production and the non level playing field that Australian Primary Producers are vulnerable to.
It would be quite a change if the Australian population by and large would support their own primary producers, rather than buying cheap imports, that do use chemicals etc. that Australian Producer themselves refuse to use, as we care about our animals, and we care about our consumers.
Maybe an article on what Australian producers DO offer opposed to what Australia imports and subjects Australian people to would be a very good article Ruth?
Reasons to BUY Australian? What do you think?
about 1 year ago
A Stevens, I wish everyone would read what you have written. It is calm, factual and VERY important to this discussion. Thanks for taking the time to make a positive contribution.
I believe that the vast majority of consumers are quite happy to hear the facts behind Australian agricultural production. Unfortunately, they very seldom are exposed to those facts.
about 1 year ago
A. Stevens raises the issue of correct labelling of pork products to differentiate the imported meat from that produced locally. Another area where labelling is non- existent is in regards to meat produced in our abattoirs by ritual slaughter[ Halal and Kosher practices]. Any meat that is excess to the needs of those buying these products is sold into the usual retail outlets unlabeled as to its form of slaughter.
This meat is perfectly fit for consumption but as the sheep and cattle are killed by a very cruel and distressing process, I feel consumers should at least have the opportunity to make an informed choice whether or not to purchase meat produced in this way.
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth
Thankyou for your column in the weekend australian magazine 23/24 – I was so happy to hear you giving a voice to factory farmed animals.
I am having an exhibition of drawings & sculptures at Noosa Regional Gallery from 29th April – 5th June – to raise awareness & hopefully some money for Animals Australia & the great work they do.
I hope that your column this week will make a difference
With Regards,
Elizabeth
elizabeth poole
email: elizabeth@elizabethpoole.com.au
website: http://www.elizabethpoole.com.au
about 1 year ago
Thank you , Ruth, for this article.
Re this comment – “Coles is involved in a cynical marketing exercise and consumers would not support its efforts if they knew the “facts”.
I would say that it is these vets who are involved in the cynical marketing exercise, and in fact their credibility AS vets is seriously undermined, in my opinion. I would not wish the wellbeing of any animals to be entrusted to anyone with such a cynical and callous attitude.
I , along , obviously, with the majority of concerned consumers, absolutely do not believe that animals should be fed hormones, nor kept in inhumane conditions, and , whether a cynical marketing ploy or not , at least Coles is on the right track – after all, how successful a marketing tactic would it be, unless the majority of customers agreed?
And to the vets – we are NOT all ignorant ninnies, falling hook, line, and sinker for any spurious marketing exercise that comes along – you may be surprised at how many of us are discerning customers, who make a point of being well-informed on such matters, and make our choices accordingly.
And Ruth – I’m very pleased to hear that you will be raising the issue of imported pork with Coles – this has been a real concern.
about 1 year ago
Dear Roger Crook,
I am not very impressed that you diminished what I said was my background, on the Just Grounds Community blog you posted.
“I have had my little say to Ms Ostrow. She claims to know all about farming because she is a butchers daughter. Glad my old man wasn’t an undertaker!”
I dare you to repost this on the site. My father was in the meat industry for 30 years, grew cattle, killed cattle, owned abattoirs in different states and i am a woman who has spent a lot of time with meat men, workers and producers. Your efforts to make me into a laughing stock because I have a differing view to yours is not in keeping with the fair and honest values of the Community site upon which you post.
Let’s see how fair you are and if you are going to rectify your comment.
about 1 year ago
Re the challenge to me from Ruth Ostrow.
I believe I did no more than repeat what she (Ms Ostrow) had already stated regarding her father’s occupation in her own post. Having the rural background that she has, I am surprised she understands so little about the industry today.
My father was a pharmacist. I am not. I spent my childhood around around doctors and compound pharmacists, yet I claim to know little about the science of pharmacy.
I chose agriculture, which I suspect by Ms Ostrow’s blog, is not considered a science, any more than being an MCRVS.
It will be interesting if Ms Ostrow does ask the question and get a reply from the regulators and the NHMRC with regard to HGPs and lets us all know of their opinion of their use in the Australian beef industry.
I will also be interested to learn of her views on synthetic hormones being used and asked for by sections of our community. The doses prescribed by the medical profession are far greater than one would ingest eating a bullock a day let alone an occasional steak.
I also challenge Ms Ostrow to show, by a peer reviewed paper, where the use of HGPs has or does cause distress to animals.
Here is my reply to her email (Moderator says: “Published above on this site”)
Dear Ms Ostrow
I has no intention of making you a laughing stock. I regret that is the way you interpreted my comments, it was not my intention to so do. Belittling people is not my style, others will attest to that. I see no reason, in fact I abhor the denigration of others particularly when it is apparent there is a lack of understanding of the fundamentals.
I do note however, that some of the ignorant statements made by others, that appeared on your blog regarding those of us who grow food, the food we all eat, appear to have gone without comment from you. I think I could be forgiven for believing you welcomed them.
I found particularly offensive the mention of Hitler. Moderation on your blog is, obviously, subjective.
Ruth Harrison, Rachael Carson and Peter Singer et al, have for the last forty years or more been writing, in essence, what you have written.
You have done little but he-hash (forgive the term, it can be a leek and potato hash if you wish) what has been written so often before by others, and what has probably not been read by the majority of your respondents. So it is new again and you have written about it.
In the mean time, the farmers of this world do their best to feed you all.
You would do well to read what the (recently) late Prof Norman Borlaug, Nobel Laureate, father of the green revolution, shortly before his death last year, had to say about world food production and the need for an increase.
I will happily supply you with a list of the articles i have written for this site (Just Grounds) on Australian agriculture and the plight of farmers, lack of profit and ever increasing debt. A situation that goes unnoticed in the MSM, even though agriculture is still 25% of our national exports.
Kind regards,
Roger
about 1 year ago
Thanks Roger, a well-argued response. Yes, I will go back and moderate on that Hitler comment which made me feel quite shocked. The debate was still going at midnight and stuff did get through that I still want to comment on. A journo for 30 years but I am only new to the blogging side of things. Having had 250 posts to this article, I’ve sure been kept busy learning on the run and trying to handle the controversy! Ruth
about 1 year ago
Ruth, do you have a link to this community? What sort of community is it?
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth,
I appreciate you are the moderator of your blog. I do however believe that if you reproduce an email you sent to me, you could at the very least, accurately reproduce what you wrote to me.
about 1 year ago
Thanks Roger I did not publicly reproduce the personal email I sent rather referred to the open letter I wrote you on my blog. You were right to chastise me for sending you a personal email, i am indeed new to the rules of blogging. I did post a softer reply to you publicly, mindful of what is fair to say in a public arena like a blog. Keep sending your comments they seem to be inspiring debate!! And get your friends at the Just Ground Community to write too, they have some strong points of view that are worthy of airing.
about 1 year ago
Professor Lean’s comments are mind-boggling and demonstrate a total of understanding of animals as sentient beings and a total absence of compassion.
He suggests that no mother would not undergo discomfort so that their children survived. Sows in crates have no choice and if they did would certainly choose a much better place to have their young. And what mother would want their childen taken away and slaughtered? To suggest that a pig ‘eradicates’ her young (and thus does Prof Lean out of a meal) is extraordinary and illogical. So Prof Lean is claiming that a pig would kill 100% of her young if she was not imprisoned on concrete behind steel bars? Studies have shown that the mortality rate in piglets is no less or more in natural environment. It is disappointing that humans are not adapting more to the loss of environment, water shortages and rising populations. Rather than increasing the level of suffering in animals to produce more meat, plant based foods could provide more than enough food should humans choose to be smart about their our future.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, I usually enjoy your columns, so was very surprised at the factual errors and lack of research that went into this latest one.
I work in a pig farm, and I’m sick and tired of the Australian farmers being tarred with the same brush as producers in other countries. Pig farming worldwide is very diverse, and the situation in other countries is not necessarily the same here. For example – Pig growth hormone is called “Porcine somatotrophin”, not HGP as you state. It cannot be fed to pigs, it is only avaliable in an injectable form, and must be injected daily for the final few weeks of the growing period. This is a very labour intensive practise, and is therefore not widely used in Australia. Other countries with cheap labour use it regularly. TBC
about 1 year ago
Thanks A Stevens, appreciate hearing your experience.
about 1 year ago
Humans do not have the right to inflict suffering on other living creatures. Sadly, many humans use their intelligence to try to justify their bad behaviour. One day, when humanity has evolved beyond this treachery to creatures and our planet, we will look back on these times aghast. And no, I dont think saying a prayer over the meat resolves me of implication is a beasts life of torment (as quite a few people have suggested to me). Meanwhile, thank you Ruth, and many others too, for moving the debate forward. For now, as one small act to honour animals, I remain a vegetarian. Yes, I know that most large scale food production is fraught with moral and ethical questions. But lets each of us act with care and integrity towards this planet and we can find a way to feed and care for us all without cruelty and WITH respect
about 1 year ago
Since you asked for comment –
I am very much in support of natural, free ranging farming techniques. Yes, it can cost more to buy a free range chook or eggs, but to me the slight extra cost is worth it to ensure I’m not encouraging cruelty to animals (besides, I’m a bargain hunter and often find free range eggs, chickens, pork etc marked down to same or less expensive than thier countrparts and keep my own free ranging chickens too). I personally don’t eat meat but some in my family do and to me it makes sense to feed my family local ethically treated meat which is interfered with as little as possible.
As you mentioned, we do have teeth to show we are omniverous… but the meat that our great grand parents ate was not tampered with in the way it is now through medications, hormones, build up of toxins in our environment and even single-species farming that can increase parasite problems etc. My goal for our family is to be essentially self sufficient… we have a small amount of land to do that, but an acre is more than enough to support a family even including some livestock. Home designs have been introduced in an average sized houseblock that can sustain its residents with fishponds, gardens, and more.
Obviously to that extreme we would no longer be relying on the commercial suppliers and stakeholders that spark this debate. From a commercial point of view however, we can (and supermarket suppliers can) insist on humanely treated meat with little intervention. The reason the overfarmed options continue to exist is that they are on the shelves and are cheaper. I have been through many financial seasons with my family, and there is always a pressure to feed your family for less. If meat on the shelves was all high quality humanely treated animals, we may have to fill our carts with less meat of higher quality and more alterative food sources but I for one feel this would be a vast improvment both for the nature of farming in this country and the health of our families.
about 1 year ago
I agree with you Ruth, that most consumers would want a more compassionate solution if they knew the facts…or would they? .. In our weird society where we give such care and respect to our household pets, throwing up our arms at any abuse to kittens and puppies, we turn a blind eye to the sorry plight of farmyard animals just so that we can justify the eating of meat. We should extend our compassion to ALL animals.
I hope you get lots of support.
Barbara
about 1 year ago
I believe with all my head and my heart that all animals have a consciousness of being alive. They have varying degrees of “intelligence” and “emotion”. All fiercely want to be alive. As we humans continue to evolve intellectually I believe we will ultimately change the way we treat animals and one day will look back at what we currently do as unfathomably barbaric. Times are changing but we all need to learn about the issues and make changes that take us forward. Ultimately the only truly tenable position for us all is to be vegetarians but in transition I believe a reasonable position is to firstly treat all animals under our collective care with dignity and respect and to provide them with a quality life. So, no cages, no hormones, no tearing away their young and so on.
about 1 year ago
I agree with the overall opinion that we treat animals that are raised for food production very badly. It is heartening to know that Coles and Woolworths are phasing out pork from closely penned sows and have also decided to cease , over the next couple of years, selling eggs from the battery-hen egg producers. Animal welfare issues are slowly but surely being addressed
Professor Lean’s response to the use of hormones in beef production is strange considering he is a veterinarian. It is also a fact that the Australian Veterinary Association supports the practice of ritual slaughter. This is a very cruel form of slaughter that prohibits prestunning before the animal is killed[ Australian law mandates that all animals killed in our abattoirs be prestunned as this eliminates entirely the pain of the procedure and most of the stress; an exception is made in the case of ritual slaughter] This form of slaughter is supported by our federal and state governments, but condemned by all animal welfare groups, although not all of them are prepared to stand up and say so in public.
about 1 year ago
If we had to keep our personal animal livestock in tiny boxes for life with almost no movement, so that our meat is the most tender possible; if we were the ones who had to deprive them of their newborn; if we had to hand feed them and see them live like this every day, then have to slaughter them ourselves to put them on the dinner table, I wonder how many of us would really be that interested in eating meat? Whilst ever someone else does our dirty work for us, we will allow these practices to go on. However most of us ane now more aware and are repulsed when we find out and would do whatever we coluld to make the lives of animals happier. I cant imagine these animals are any different to my pets who have a huge range of emotions. Just because they are animals of course does not mean they do not live in misery. What can we do to help them?
about 1 year ago
Ruth,
I think a balance is needed here. I no longer buy cage chicken eggs – I can’t see why an animal should suffer like they often do, however I do buy eggs that are barn laid and discover that some consider this wrong too.
With hormones
about 1 year ago
Thank you Ruth for your column, I am behind you 100 per cent to make the lives of farm animals better.
If
about 1 year ago
As I said I am waiting for the invitation to the slaughter house with a video camera. As for your argument about hormones in other foods, natural sources of vitamins and hormones which exist in nature are digestible by the liver. The whole argument around HRT and cancer for instance is that artificially created sources of oestrogen testosterone and growth hormones can not be broken down properly by the digestive system and therefore pose a potential health risk to humans. They are banned as livestock food in Europe as a health risk. As for hormones existing in milk you are making me laugh. The same cows are fed hormones to make them lactate. You must think we are stupid.
about 1 year ago
Ruth-
I personally don’t ever use HGP’s and don’t want to fall for a “red herring” while my whole mo and industry is under question.
I pasted that statement from the ABA as I used to be a director and if-
When compared with 500 grams of beef from HGP treated cattle the amount of oestrogen in 200 ml of milk is about seven times, a 375 ml of beer (stubbie) 10 times, a hens egg 150 times or the common cooking ingredient of 10ml soybean oil is 1800 times.-
If Brad’s statement is incorrect- I will need more than your laughter to convince me. Why would he lie?
The duopoly enjoyed by Coleworth’s is obsecne and all your emotional supporters here had better consider what they are going to eat when we are all shut down and it all (food0 comes in processed from overseas!
about 1 year ago
Ruth-
The proper term is abattoir-slaughterhouse is a bit melodramatic. As I have stated- it is all very quick- they are stunned electrically then bled by severing the jugular(by an authorized Muslim facing the right way- if it Halal) then hoisted onto the chain and progresses through the skinning and gutting and grading and then into the chiller.
Given your background-you must know what is involved- do you want a video to shock everyone? Do you expect to see headless animals chasing the boners about? You would see some bodies quivering for awhile as the nerves expire.
I have no problem seeing my stock done but it is a factory not a tourist item and for security and privacy reasons-I’m sure that I wouldn’t be allowed to video. Goats are done the same nowdays and are like the sheep- no screaming or stress- just lights out!
Thats me done- here- trying to give some constructive balance- Have a good ANZAC day everyone.
about 1 year ago
Slaughterhouse is not too melodramatic if you are the animal about to be slaughtered.
about 1 year ago
Beef Should be the Least of Concern for Hormone Conscience Consumers
ABA Chairman Brad Bellinger said today, “The promotion of Coles Supermarket in advertising hormone free needs to be put into perspective for those consumers wishing to avoid Hormone Growth Promotants (HGPs).
The marketing gimmick overlooks the fact that many everyday items found in the shopping trolley contain higher levels of hormones than beef.
When compared with 500 grams of beef from HGP treated cattle the amount of oestrogen in 200 ml of milk is about seven times, a 375 ml of beer (stubbie) 10 times, a hens egg 150 times or the common cooking ingredient of 10ml soybean oil is 1800 times.
Mr Bellinger stated, “For consumers to avoid oestrogen in their grocery list would result in a very dull diet devoid of many staple products in our diet”.
The hormones in beef are natural and are safe to eat and consumers should be aware that they are at much lower levels that commonly consumed foods.
Beef Producers are still waiting for premiums to be paid for cattle by Coles for hormone free beef. Tasmanian producers have been waiting for over 20 years for a premium for their cattle following a ban on HGPs in their state.
Mr Bellinger said, “I suspect beef producers will be left out of the chain of increased returns promised by Coles”.
about 1 year ago
Thank you for bringing this matter to people’s attention. I am sure that if people knew how animals were treated, they would think twice about eating them. Pigs, especially, are such intelligent animals, it is an utter disgrace that they are confined in the cruel way that they are – and then to be pumped full of hormones as well. It should be made illegal. Why in this country do we talk or ‘growing pork’ when we mean we are breeding real, live animals with feelings and who suffer pain? Does it make it sound less cruel and abusive? I choose not to eat animals but if I buy it for others, I ensure that it is free range (and that is not always easy as there is much false advertising). I realise that it is more expensive and not everyone is able to afford it. But I would hope that they would learn how these animals suffer before they choose to eat them. Animals have a right to live a life that is as natural as possible, not be confined and physically and psychologically totured.
about 1 year ago
Jill, please scroll down the page to a comment made by A Stevens at 8.14pm that gives good clear evidence that to the contrary of your emotive statement “pumped full of hormones.”
I believe that it is unfounded & emotive to make a statement as you have that animals are “physically and psychologically tortured”
about 1 year ago
I would be concerned if there is a proven link between certain hormones and human health. But I’m afraid specious arguments about how well animals are treated before we devour them are a bit pointless – for crying out loud, animals are going to have to be killed so we can eat them! There’s no point trying to sugar coat that harsh truth……perhaps we should euthanase them first to keep the bleeding hearts brigade happy?
Now, where’s my juicy steak, I’m getting hungry!
about 1 year ago
I like meat too but there are abattoirs specially designed to reduce stress in animals. The use of these has to be preferable to the old-fashioned slaughterhouse and terrified animals. At least your much-loved steak will be free of stress-induced hormones.
I certainly would not purchase any meat from a supermarket where there is a local butcher sourcing meat from local farmers whose stock is bred and raised in open paddocks, not crates or even feedlots.
In my admittedly limited experience, farmers treat their stock very well and genuinely care about the animals they raise. This makes it all the more surprising that they are prepared to supply the live export trade. Sure the cattle and sheep are well-treated on the ships – but what happens to them on arrival in third world countries and how can they condone this practice?
about 1 year ago
Ruth you are right and Professor Ian Lean is wrong. Please ask him if he receives any funding from the drug companies, or his university, or any person or organization he is in any way associated with.
about 1 year ago
If the Animal Health Alliance led humans to drastically reduce food waste specifically for the benefit of animals, I would give full support. To market the current cruel exploitation while displaying an appalling lack of empathy with other animals suggests another cynical exercise.
about 1 year ago
Neither animals nor humans need extra hormones. Hormones in the food chain contribute to various health problems including beast cancer. Clearly the pharmaceutical companies are worried about loss of revenue and trot out some tame scientists whose research the companies fund . Sadly this also applies in medicine. We need to fully support Coles and any other retailer offering hormone free meat.We need to support free range producers.
I suggest watching the movie “Food Inc.” -it is a real eye opener.
about 1 year ago
I am very upset by cruelty deniers. I grew up in the meat industry, I watched animals lead to their slaughter making hideous screaming noises. The animals cry all night for their young. It is horrible, – perhaps things are better now. But any slaughter house managers who wants to invite me in with a film crew, please email me ruth@ruthostrow.com. I will be there to show what humane practices go on. You guys are notoriously impossible to film. Prove me wrong. Let me in!
about 1 year ago
Bloody hell Ruth-
Get with the times. I have been through about 80% of this counties Plants and they are almost all state of the art .So far as the death(something that I hate to see as well to prime of life animals) mechanics go- ignorance is bliss! They go single file into what might be a loading ramp and as they come through a curtain- they get an electric shock and instant unconsciousness then bled.Death is not a pleasant thought but I can reconcile what I do in that they have a short but happy life here and it is nature at work.
I plant the seed (Ram or Bull) every year and once life ceases- I provide a high quality food source. Your whole topic here is far too emotional.
As the song says-
“we’re all gonna die someday!”
about 1 year ago
As I said I am waiting for the invitation to the slaughter house with a video camera. As for your argument about hormones in other foods, natural sources of vitamins and hormones which exist in nature are digestible by the liver. The whole argument around HRT and cancer is that artificially induced sources of oestrogen testosterone and growth hormones can not be broken down properly by the digestive system and therefore pose a potential health risk to humans. They are banned as livestock food in Europe as a health risk. As for hormones existing in milk you are making me laugh. The same cows are fed hormones to make them lactate. You must think we are stupid.
about 1 year ago
Ruth you said, “cows are fed hormones to make them lactate”
I’m unaware of hormones being used in the dairy industry at all. What information do you have?
In the beef cattle industry no breeding animal is administered any hormones. It is not alllowed. the majority of breeding herds don’t use hormones.
about 1 year ago
Rick and Rob, just talking to a mate of mine who is a dairyman, he reckons no way are they fed hormones to make milk, so Ruth, can you please provide credible links to numerous people / dairy’s that do this, and not just a sweeping statement please. Thank you.
about 1 year ago
They are correct about our own industry. In Australia, hormones such as oestrogen are not used in reproductive management in lactating cows. However, BST or bovine somatotropin, a hormone used to increase milk production is used in many countries of the world which is a major health issue. I just pray that industry lobbiests don’t get this one overturned on the basis of “no evidence hormones lead to cancer”
about 1 year ago
Hi just responded to this one. In Australia we thankfully don’t use BST, however, BST (or bovine somatotropin), a hormone used to increase milk production is used in many countries of the world which is a major health issue. I just pray that industry lobbiests don’t get this one overturned on the basis of “no evidence hormones lead to cancer”
about 1 year ago
The thought that we can justify the suffering we cause to other creatures in the name of providing food for our species is obscene. Grow and eat vegetables. If you must eat meat raise the animals yourself. Give them a natural free-range life and see that they are killed humanely. If these choices are impossible in cities then be very selective in what you buy. Stressed and hormone fed meat is not what you want to ingest. Stop giving the drug companies a licence to print money. We can be better than that.
about 1 year ago
There were those in the nineteen sixties that predicted the world would be starving by now.
In my farming lifetime the population of the world has doubled and food production has doubled.
By and large the population of the world has been fed during that time and continues to be fed. Starvation in parts of the world is the product of wars, greed and mans inhumanity to man, invariably to the people of his or her own nation.
Many people, many children die every day of hunger and it’s not because there is a shortage of food in the world. It’s because it’s easier to fight wars.
The farmers, their advisers and agricultural scientists of this ‘developed world’ have doubled food production as the population of the world has doubled.
It is predicted that we must increase food production by at least 50% within the next thirty years or so to again avoid a humanitarian catastrophe.
Again 80% of the task will fall to the farmers of the ‘developed world’ to feed the extra people.
We are fortunate that we can choose what kind of food we eat, organic or non organic. We are fortunate that we can afford the premium for ‘organic’ food, especially when that food is flown into the country to satisfy our needs. But of course we care about Peak Oil, don’t we.
For those who know nothing about farming or how the food they fill their bellies with every day is grown , I believe it is an exercise in extreme self complacent urban ‘lets bash the farmers’ arrogance, best debated over dinner no doubt.
It is also grossly insulting to the food producers of this world and to those, like veterinary surgeons, to suggest they are unethical because they support a management practice (HGPs) that has been approved by the Australian regulatory authorities and the NHMRC. Do they (the NHMRC) too have a vested interest. If so, please show the evidence.
Perhaps Ms Ostrow would care to take her question to those regulators and print the reply they give?
And while she is at it, give us a dissertation on the use of genetically modified organisms in medicine, especially in the treatment of diabetes.
We might also discuss the willing and grateful self administration of synthetic hormones by sections of our community.
Your contributors Ms Ostrow, do agriculture and farmers a disservice. There is ample evidence that farmers are struggling. Few have an ROI in excess of 2%. Food is cheap. We spend less of our average weekly wage on food today than we have ever done in our history.
about 1 year ago
I heard that we should only eat what we are prepared to kill ourselves. That happens with fish quite often, but rarely with meat. If we had to kill our own food, I wonder how many of us would become vegetarian? I don’ t have the willpower, but I know that it would be better for me, and better for the environment, if I became vegan. I understand that it would also help to alleviate food shortages around the world. All that said, I do want to think that the creature that I eat has had a normal and relatively happy outdoor life. (I eat lamb for that reason – as far as I know, they haven’t started putting sheep in cages!) As for hormone treatment, for whatever reason, it’s an absolute no-no. It is a disgusting way to treat animals, and is a contemptuous way to treat consumers also.
about 1 year ago
I think it better to stick with the EU’s views on food .”The use of hormones to stimulate the growth of cattle raises a potential risk for consumers’ health,” the E.U. scientists said.
This latest opinion follows a re-appraisal of 17 studies as well as taking into account the latest scientific evidence available from other
relevant sources.
about 1 year ago
In a perfect world, all our animals should be treated with respect, whether you decide to eat them or not! I am very fortunate in having the choice to have free range pork (happy little piggies) and hormone free as well as hormone free beef.
I would consider becoming a vegetarian if I did not have these choices.
The FACTS are if we are eating hormones that are injected into our animals, we are ingesting these hormones. Isn’t this the cause of anti biotics being resistant to the virulent viruses. The more we eat how ‘grandma did’, the healthier we will become.
Thanks for the chance to comment.
about 1 year ago
Irrespective of the adventurism of scientists and supporting evidence from the scientific research funded by stakeholders in such unethical business of mass production of meat, there are millions around the world who believe in ethical treatment of animals.
Rather than managing human population or our growing appetite for meat produced by feeding growth hormones to animals and finding reasons to support such menace, one needs to think why it was never a problem that pigs will roll over the tiny piglets. Perhaps these pregnant pigs need to be put in these tiny crates because their bones cannot keep their weight and they will rollover unless put into the tiny crates and made to stand forcefully.
Growth hormones in humans are banned, and if humans are living in filthy conditions that is considered immoral and unethical for the entire society but when animals are forced to live in filth, we cannot question why this meat is considered edible by our health and food industry OR why we as humans accept treating animals so cruelly. We can make an ethical choice and think of alternate sources of proteins or reduce our meat consumption and buy organ. I am happy to pay more for free range/organic meat rather than eating growth hormone fed meat which a lay man understands that is no good but then we have scientific evidence that eating meat from animals raised in filth is perfectly hygenic to eat let alone ethical.
about 1 year ago
The way we treat animals for food is outrageous. It is immoral, unethical, cruel, desperate. To eat such meat is to be part of the problem. The only meat to eat with a clear conscience is hormone free, free-range meat (not bred free-range and other weasel words designed to confuse well meaning consumers). If it costs more, then just buy and eat less.
The only people who support factory farming and hormone fed animals are those with a vested interest.
about 1 year ago
I am a 4th year Veterinary Science student, and have been in the veterinary and farming industry all my life. I am sorry to say it, but Ruth, it is people like you who intentionally inflame issues they know nothing about, that raise the ire of the consumers and cause strife for our farming industry.
The modern methods of raising production animals such as beef cattle, chickens and pigs is not ideal, of course, BUT if the facts were known (and actually considered, rather than simply tossed aside), it would be far more difficult to place the blame.
If you have not been to a piggery, worked in piggery, if you are not a Vet or other animal science professional, if you do not have any real education or knowledge on the subject, then keep your opinions to yourself.
I am aware production animal welfare is a hot topic at present, and this is why we have as part of our curriculum, a full year of welfare, ethics and production. We discuss issues such as this in great detail. We visit and perform welfare audits on production animal farms. We compare key performance indicators in all aspects of welfare, health, and yes, market performance to industry standards. We are taught how to evaluate an animal for health, contentment and general well-being. Are you?
Sows are NOT kept in crates ‘their whole lives’, and they are not separated from their young. Sow Crates allow piglets to cover the entire area of the crate, moving under and around the sow. It is true that the sow herself cannot turn around – this is to cause the sow to lie down slowly in order to protect the piglets from being smothered. She is in this crate for around 4 weeks. Do you perhaps think, Ruth, that it is better if the piglets were smothered to death? Is that, in your opinion, good welfare??
Many studies have shown that extensive pig farming of free range pigs is not only uneconomical, but also results in a higher piglet mortality. Therefore, current practices are far better for overall herd health and produce more pigs for market.
I, personally, as a requirement for my degree, have worked on several piggeries. In each of these piggeries, the animals were content and healthy, the production rates were high (this is not possible if the animals are unhealthy, and a healthy animal is generally a happy animal), and the workers and managers had a genuine regard and respect for their charges.
Animal production is the way it is for a reason, Ruth Ostrow. Please get your facts straight before jumping on the bandwagon of a contentious issue and using the same scare tactics as everyone else. I had thought you were more intelligent than that.
about 1 year ago
Firstly my dear, NO ONE should keep their opinions to themselves. That’s called Fascism. As for no experience as I have written in several letters on this site I am the daughter of a butcher who owned abottoirs and am well aware of practices in the industry having been surrounded with producers all my life. Thirdly please go live in a crate where you can’t turn around for a month, or many months as the case may be with regards to pregnant sows. And finally how awful that you try to protect the piglets so we can eat them. Can’t you see the barbarism and contradiction in that? No vet should condone what I have seen. And my intelligence or lack of it, is not the subject of this blog.
about 1 year ago
Fascism: Principles and organization of the patriotic & anti communist movement in Italy starting during the great war, culminating with the virtual dictatorship of Signor Mussolini & imitated by fascist or blackshirt associations in other countries: The Concise Oxford Dictionary.
You got me, Ruth, with your definition.
about 1 year ago
People should remember that scientists are supposed to be seekers of the truth not protagonists for hire by wealthy industrialists.
It is perfectly relevant to enquire whether you have vested interests in advocating the views you do. Large pharmaceutical companies have a well established history, as Ruth would well know, of offering inducements to further their commercial interests . Why bite the hand that feeds you?
As to the substance, other people have covered the issues well. There can be no excuse for cruelty in the treatment of farm or any other animals. Coles and WW have realised that consumers demand this and bow to the market.
Cheers
J.W.
about 1 year ago
Since humans control the planet, on ethical grounds they have the responsibility to ensure the wellbeing of all animals, not just humans. Lean’s argument that HGP augments the food available for humans to consume only adds further support to population growth, the factor that is at the root of all our environmental problems, including our cruel treatment of animals.
about 1 year ago
Thank you for highlighting the plight of livestock fed hormones and kept in cruel conditions.
This is completely unacceptable in our society, or should be.
I would always prefer ‘free range’ meat that is drug free, even though it may be more expensive than meat obtained from caged animals.
For that reason, I buy only free range chicken, free range eggs, and I never buy or consume veal. I seldom buy pork, and might not buy it again, having read your article.
If Coles or Woolworths (or anyone else for that matter) were to offer ‘free range’ and drug free meat, I would buy it often without hesitation.
about 1 year ago
An article that is outside our personal woes and navel gazing is to be celebrated.
Respect for religions, respect for the aged, infirm and others but respect for our fellow companions on this earth is hard to find.
The celebratory butchery mandatory for our festivals: the legs of ham, turkeys, chickens for BBQ and ovens are to be counted by the millions at any one time.
Give a little space, a little time on a little healthy green patch for our fellow animals who often behave far more humanely than any of us.
Put Leane to pasture.
about 1 year ago
A brief glance at the internet will reveal a large amount of information linking hormones in beef to both male and female infertility. Particularly to infertility in sons born to women who eat beef in pregnancy.
Infertility in both sexes is a problem of our age and ever rising, along with the heartbreak it brings. Anything we can do to keep extraneous hormones out of the foodchain should be done, and should be a moral responsibility of the perpetrators.
about 1 year ago
Alison, I would be interested in a link to a scientific study you trust to support this assertion. It’s interesting to me, given that the amount of oestrogen in a 100g serve of beef from a treated steer is 1.4-2.5 nanograms, and from a non-treated steer is 1.2-2.0 nanograms. (A nanogram is one billionth of a gram.)
You would need to eat more than 77kg of beef
from treated steers in one sitting to get the same
oestrogen as you do from eating one egg, or 200kg
to get the same from a serving of cabbage.
http://www.mla.com.au/About-the-red-meat-industry/Food-safety-and-quality/Hormone-growth-promotants
about 1 year ago
I am a sheep farmer. I enjoy this so much that I completed an animal science degree which included the study of nutrition, physiology, animal welfare and economics before returning to my family’s farm. Animal welfare is key to all our decision making processes. We also have to balance this with making enough of a profit so that we can make a living and reinvest in sustaining or improving our land’s condition.
I agree that there is a huge divide between the consumer and the producer. The Australian FarmDay allows consumers to spend a day on farm with a farmer and see how it really happens, which is a long way from factory farming. Last year there were more farmers registered than consumers who we willing to travel to the farms and educate themselves first hand (in my state). See http://www.farmday.com.au if you are interested.
It appears that many of the posters are confusing animal welfare and animal ethics. Animal welfare means ensuring that you have healthy animals that are fed, watered, free from disease and pain, not stressed and free to express their natural behaviours. I cannot speak for everyone in my industry but the vast majority of farmers want to produce their animals in accordance with these. In fact if they don’t their animals will not thrive and that is counterproductive. These things need to be looked at on the understanding that a pig is a pig, a sheep is a sheep, a cow is a cow and none of these are humans. Therefore extrapolating human wants and desires onto other species doesn’t mean an improvement in animal welfare.
The ethical question of the moral right to eat meat is a personal one and should not be dictated by legislation or ruling. I also believe that the argument over HGP’s is a moral one as there is no strong medical or welfare argument against it (“the EU is doing it” is not a strong argument). If people object on ethical grounds they should abstain and market forces will mean that farmers will produce what the majority of consumers want. At this stage the majority of consumers do want meat and they do not want to pay any more than they have to. Margins in agriculture are tight. If you want a production system that meets your personal animal ethics stance understand that YOU will have to pay for any extra costs. Please do not expect us as farmers to shoulder the costs of your ethics.
about 1 year ago
An very helpful contribution to the argument Bindi, thanks
about 1 year ago
Very well stated, Bindi. I appreciate your separation of animal welfare versus animal ethics, and your description of both. I’ve not seen the issues put like this before, and it makes a lot of sense to me.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, I wonder if you could reproduce the letter signed by the 35 scientists? I did see it, and am happy to attempt to reproduce it, but assume that you have it at your fingertips.
It appeared to me that the scientists believe what they signed. If someone else paid for the letter to go in the paper, this does not mean that those scientists have taken money from that person or from anyone else.
In any case, attempting to denigrate scientists because of who is paying them is an ad hominem attack. Let’s talk about the substance of the issue(s). Please.
Peace — Jane
about 1 year ago
Hi Jane
I think it perfectly relevant to enquire whether you have vested interest in the views you advocate, and whether that might contribute to the opinions you express. Large pharmaceutical companies have a well established history, as Ruth would well know, of offering inducements to further their commercial interests in this manner.
As to the substance, other people have covered the issues well. There can be no excuse for cruelty in the treatment of farm or any other animals. Coles and WW have realised that consumers demand this and bow to the market.
Cheers
J.W.
about 1 year ago
John W, I do have a vested interest. I’m alive, and therefore a consumer. I also have been involved in beef (cattle) production my entire life.
I care about animals and their welfare. I do not condone cruelty. I will put an animal out of its misery, or I will treat an injured or sick animal…depending on the animal and its prognosis.
I also think that animals and the resources of this world are to be used respectfully and with an eye toward improving our environment. I think we have done this in the Western World. But instead, we producers are denigrated by people who do not understand how it works.
To link the use of HGPs or antibiotics to animal cruelty is not only a stretch…it is blatantly misleading to people who do not know the facts. If Ruth Ostrow was interested in facts and people’s response to those facts, then why not put them up here?
This is an outright assault on animal agriculture by vegetarian and vegan activists. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with better care of animals.
about 1 year ago
If hormones are needed to produce meat more quickly, we should eat less of it and take the pressure off the animals. As for the revelation that the ad placed by vet scientists promoting the use of hormones, was paid for by drug companies, this is just one more example of vested interests opposing real animal welfare. Humans are causing immense suffering to animals, and change is very, very slow. It is good to see that Woolworth and Coles are listening to consumers. And Ruth, thank you for taking up this issue.
about 1 year ago
I can’t get free range bacon at Coles and so dont buy bacon there. As far as I know the only free range bacon available in Perth is from Spencers Brook Farm. WE SHOULD be given the opportunity of buying hormone and water free meat. There are many ways of alleviating world food shortages before fattening animals with hormones. Its nothing short of a disgrace and the 35 vets should be ashamed of themselves.
about 1 year ago
As an ethical vegan, well done Ruth for raising this important issue. It’s such a pity that more people don’t ‘meet their meat’ as I’m sure a lot less would get consumed. We need small engaged communities, that live, work & consume locally so the polical will definately be personal! cheers
about 1 year ago
As a veterinarian I read your column (23rd April 2011) with interest and was particularly riled at Professor Lean’s statement that a `mother should undergo a little discomfort to ensure that more of her children survived’.
I became a vet because I felt my vocation was to care for animals and their welfare and I believed all my colleagues felt the same.
However, I soon became disillusioned at university (in the 90’s) when several of our lecturers turned a blind eye to obvious animal abuses. One example that has been etched on my brain forever was witnessed at a dairy farm in Western Sydney. A cow was having difficulty giving birth so the farmer attached a chain to the calf’s legs and the other end of the chain was attached to a ute. The vehicle was driven until there was a cracking like a large tree being snapped, a blood-curdling cry from the cow and the calf came out, but so did the cows uterus, bladder and intestines. This cow was then left in the yard with her intestines being trampled underneath her for over 24hrs until the truck came to take her to the abattoir. We contacted our university lecturer, who was also the farm’s veterinarian, about the situation and he told us `not to worry’ and that it was ok to leave the cow in the yard until it could be taken to the abattoir and that no action should be taken against the farmer. This lecturer obviously had the same belief as Lean that a ‘mother should undergo a little discomfort to ensure that more of her children survived’ although I am of the opinion that fracturing a cows pelvis (with no form of anaesthesia) to remove a calf is not at all ethical…and neither is confining sows in pens. I will always regret obeying my lecturer and not taking the matter further.
I am sure that Coles is doing this for marketing purposes but at least that shows that they believe people care both about hormones in meat and animal welfare…I wish not just most but all of my colleagues did too.
about 1 year ago
Sarah-
That is a dreadful story but we have all been there! As being a vet you know that a blunt pull is not the way. I have partly sliced the dead calf and saved the mother. It is all very distressing but it is real life and death!
I own about 1600 head of cattle and 2700 sheep and all the animals here get treated first class. I don’t know a single one of my peers over 30 years of experience that would have tolerated a dismembered animal suffering for a minute let alone a day.
Doesn’t ring true to me as -who transported it to the abbattoir and it would be only fit for the blood and bone vat anyway.Very strict conditions -LPA forms etc these days.
about 1 year ago
Well said Rob, I agree with you 100% on your analysis of that horrific situation.
I too have never ever treated a beast like what has been described above. Our peak breeding herd of cattle 1500 breeders, and I find that the “hobby” farmer described above has no respect for the beautiful beasts that they have the privilege of owning.
Unfortunately, it is atrocious behaviour like this that bestows the rest of primary producers as acting in the same manner.
This is simply not true or correct. I find the above post most distressing and alarming.
People have no right to have animals unless they themselves have hands on experience, and preferably generational farmers at that. These now are few and far between, as “book farmers” come out into the industry, or huge corporations who just look at it from purely a business point of view, instead of a very balanced point of view that encompasses business and animal welfare equally. Only then will these “rogues” be removed from our industry.
about 1 year ago
Thank you for this ghastly story Sarah that simply adds more emotion to an already emotional subject (due mainly to ignorance). I have worked in operating theatres and what I have experienced would make your hair curl but I wouldn’t dream of printing it on a thread like this; it would be irresponsible.
about 1 year ago
Oh Please, they only care about the dollar and those comments made by the 35 vets was absolutely only about funding! I only want to see animals for consumption treated respectfully and with loads of compassion. We should eat produce that is as natural as can be and I am sure in years to come we will see the effects that these hormones and preservatives have done to the human body. I am fortunate to live on a farm where free range produce is all we eat, we are happy and so are the animals and this is all reflected in the taste of the meat.
about 1 year ago
I am saddened that vets should be supporting the use of hormones in animals. I guess they are going the way of the medical profession in general – medicate first; support the pharmaceutical industry. Diet and lifestyle … what has that got to do with health?! In my late teens I gave up eating meat for 15 years after watching a documentary on the treatment of calves to produce veal. Over 30 years later I would still not consider eating veal (nor any other juvenile animal such as lamb) however I do eat some meat these days (poultry and more rarely, pork). That said, I go out of my way to source organically raised (or at the very least, free range) meats. I prefer to support locally produced food and have bought much of my weekly groceries from a local organic buying group for the past 12 years. I abhor the conditions in which most meat animals are kept and certainly would not consider supporting this industry. I applaude Coles on their decision to only stock hormone free meats, however I am aso very disappointed with their severe lack of organic products. My local Coles used to supply organic chickens as well as a reasonable range of oganic fruit and veges, but the chicken completely disappeared once they switched to free-range products, and these days the organic fruit and veges have almost gone too. Given the opportunity, I prefer to shop direct at farmer’s markets every time!
about 1 year ago
I hope Coles are being honest in their promotions.
about 1 year ago
Thankyou Ruth for bringing these issues into the public arena.
The relentless push to get more ‘product’ out of animals at the least possible production cost to feed the most people at the lowest product price, has resulted in some of the most inhumane and detrimental practices humans indulge in. I say ‘indulge’ because unless you are living where the only source of food is that of the animals in your vicinity, I believe there is absolutely no need for animal products in your diet. There are now many experts in the areas of health, climate change, environmental science, etc who are warning that we need to eat a lot less meat, seafood and dairy foods, and replace these with plant-based foods if we truly care about the long-term wellbeing of this planet and all life upon it. I am one of many who now are taking personal responsibility for the global impact of my diet. Since I adopted a well-balanced vegan diet two years ago, after transitioning from a vegetarian one, I’ve never been so healthy.
about 1 year ago
I am very concerned about the pain and distress we cause animals in our efforts to produce more meat quickly. I always try to buy hormone free, free range meat and have also considered becoming a vegetarian because eating meat shames me, but haven’t yet taken that step.
about 1 year ago
What kills me is people who unthinkingly eat battery meat every day, would be horrified to see footage of how their meal’s life was lived. Wake up to yourselves and do something worthwhile in your life – only eat free-range or organic, or go vegetarian or vegan. Here’s aradical thought – if you can’t afford free-range or organic, don’t eat it!
about 1 year ago
Professor Ian Lean (I use the term professor lightly) and his cohorts should be tarred and feathered, dragged through the streets, put in the stocks in Martin Place and have pale, tasteless, hormone filled chunks of meat thrown at them!
No one in their right mind can deny the negative impact on animals current livestock practices have. Intensive, chemical and hormone supported farming practices are bad not only for the animals but also the environment. Apart from all this, the food is generally nutritionally deficient and TASTELESS.
All we need to do is look at the human race. Compare the health and general well-being of a “free-range” human, having regular exercise and eating a healthy balanced diet, to one living in a confined and crowded space, living on fast food and medication (pause for breath).
If I was a cannibal, I know which one I’d prefer to munch on.
Prefessor Phillips, you have our full support.
about 1 year ago
Simon, I’m sorry for you and whatever has made you this angry.
We have a beef cattle farm, our animals are happy and well cared for in a feedlot setting. The meat is nutritious, tasty and produced in a way that is good for the environment. I eat this meat (as part of a well-balanced diet) and I am very healthy, as are the members of my family. I am proud to be producing…to be helping to feed the world.
Even grain production is enhanced by the use of animals in crop rotations. I think people do not understand that an attack on one form of agricultural production is an attack on many others. I’m thankful for every segment of food production, and for every person involved at each step of those chains of production – from the everyday farmhand to the shelf stocker at Coles.
No matter what our field of endeavour, there is always room for improvement, and the vast majority of producers are constantly striving to do so.
Some comments like yours make me want to cry.
I do not understand why you and others on here are so determined to paint me and my family and my friends also involved in meat production as “bad guys.” What has gone wrong in our society? What leads to such vitriol being applied to honest, productive members of communities?
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth,
Thank you for your article ‘One Man’s Meat…’ (Weekend Australian Magazine April 23-24, 2011). After many years of in depth research on both the practices of animal production for human consumption and of human behaviour, it is very clear that the ‘complexities’ of the moral issue of animal rights are not so much complex as they are incredibly simple – unless of course we as individuals and collectively (like Sydney University’s Professor Ian Lean) want to continue to justify the unnecessary murder of innocent living creatures.
No animal/livestock industry is exempt from the act of murder (the taking of life without consent) let alone leaving open the way for any number of abuses to the animals while they are still alive. All dairy cows are eventually sent to slaughter. In most cases their claves are taken from their mothers so humans can drink cow milk and then slaughtered so humans can eat veal. The egg industry, whether ‘free range’, ‘organic’ or ‘cage’, kills billions of tiny bouncy chicks every year, mechanically grinding them to their death just because they are not female and cannot lay eggs. The topic of your article is focuses on pigs – they are all murdered, killed against their will no matter how ‘good’ their conditions are. If Hitler gave the Jews Egyptian cotton sheets, wide screen TVs and dental plans would that make their systematic murder ok? No it wouldn’t.
The debate and ‘complexities’ will be endless as long as we leave out one simple fact – no living creature wishes to die. Death is arguably the greatest fear of any human, yet we humans murder 3 billion animals every single week – this is a crime of unimaginable proportions. We ended black slavery, we have given women the vote, we stoped the apartheid but Hitler, Pol Pott and Stalin are saints compared to the actions and habits of the ‘good’ citizens of this country and indeed planet earth.
You say in your article “Adrenalin from fear misery permeates the flesh we eat” and this will always be the case as long as the flesh of dead corpses is eaten – regardless of whether the animals are treated ‘humanely’ they are extremely attuned to the emotion of fear and can smell death a mile away – they know when it is coming and no living creature wishes to die, human, cow, pig, fish, none of them.
As humans we live in a segregated reality, we do not see where our food comes from and in the main we have the luxury of being able to live out our lives and go through our personal process of our own death without it being forced upon us. It is this segregated reality which allows for the justification of any act of violence, abuse, and corruption. Unless we, as Einstein said, “expand our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures” we, as a race, will (and arguably are) paying for our narrow minded, basic and destructive habits and perspective of life.
It is the year 2011, and as long as we accept, promote and justify the breeding, enslavement, abuse, manipulation, rape (most commercially bred animals are inseminated against their will) and murder of innocent animals for our old habits, how do we think we can end school bullying, the abuse of women, the destruction of the environment and even remotely achieve any semblance of equality for the human race? We can’t, it is not possible – none of us are free while some of us suffer, and until we expand our circle of care beyond a human centric idea of life we will forever be trapped in a culture of violence inequality and continually try to solve problems and justify abuse and murder by any insane means possible.
Sydney University’s Professor Ian Lean says “What mother would not undergo a little discomfort to ensure that more of her children survived?” – I ask what sort of a human would subject another living creature to such disgusting caged conditions and then murder them? Lean should take a good look at what he is really saying and ask himself if he is a caring person at all? I wonder if he would be happy if his wife was kept in a cage so she couldn’t accidently harm one of her children, and then when his wife is fat enough for eating that she be killed against her will? I would like to put Professor (how intelligent he must be to be given that title!) Ian Lean into one of those sow pens for a week and see how he likes a “little discomfort”, not because I wish him harm, but clearly his title has no bearing on his intelligence and it seems the only way he might be able to increase his intelligence and awareness of life would be through experience. But I am pretty certain that Lean wouldn’t like that idea at all.
As Australian of the year Philip Wollen said in a recent speech – “The issue of animal rights is the biggest social issue since the abolition of slavery.” What a wonderful country (and indeed planet) this will be when institutions no longer gave titles of high regard to those who promote unnecessary abuse, murder and enslavement. I say unnecessary because as a person who did not eat animal flesh for some 8 years and now have not eaten or used any animal products for 2 years, I am living proof that it is not necessary. Just ask any of the 600 million vegetarians on the planet. And if people like Lean want to argue for abuse and murder then they should put their money where their mouth is and on a weekly basis take all their children, wives, parents and families to their churches – the slaughter houses, baby chick grinding machines, veal crates and seafood processing factories and see how long they still want to believe in the religion of murder and abuse.
Thank you again for your article, which although it (like my letter here) only touches the surface, it is better than ignoring the issue all together.
Sincerely,
Aaron J. March
about 1 year ago
Never in my entire life have I read such a sorry posting. I am in shock at what you have written! My god man, are you really living in such a delusional world, do you really believe that Hilter and Stalin are “saints”?
Sir, I implore you, see a doctor, I am concerned for your well being. Are you eating a well balanced diet?
about 1 year ago
Probably a vegan!
about 1 year ago
Brilliant Aaron. It it such an obvious topic that we humans must learn to respect all of life in the same manner that we demand from others. It is weird is it not how people get hurt over a small demeaning comment and yet are so cold about the suffering of innocent creatures. And then to top it off the attack compassionate people like you – beat that! Stick on yor path, it is a wise one, and just ignor ethe comments of all the people who are addicted to killing and eating their fellow inhabitants of this planet. The days of the moronic meat eater will be over soon enough – those idiots will either destroy the planet as they rape it to death or they will have to wake p to a more aware state. One or the other – but individuals can still journey towards a more advanced state een if the majority of the population are dim witted fools that still think it is all fine to murder. They are so stupid they somehow don’t even see it as murder and are so so very stupid that they probably won’t understand anything I am saying either…lol Simple formula you nob headed dik wads….. survival will only come from increased compassion, nothing else. DAAAAAA!
about 1 year ago
Aaron, what a great comment..you said all I was thinking..just one thing though, I wouldn’t wish Mr. Lean to spend time in a crate. He could experience absolutlely NO discomfort just by giving up pork.
about 1 year ago
Drug companies manipulating industry, consumer opinion, the outcome of studies and clinical research and the medical profession, its nothing new. Its appalling that their tentacles continue to spread un-checked, this time under the guise of the ‘future food shortage’, which is our own fault for perpetuating unsustainable living. I would prefer Coles/Woolies went further, on into organic/bio-dynamic produce and also dealt fairly with their farmers and suppliers, but baby steps are still progress and will have to do for now. Thanks for giving voice to the subject of hormones in meat. (oh, and I’m not a raving greenie or vegetarian, just a regular, concerned individual)
about 1 year ago
I only want to eat happy animals! We have a cattle property and our animals are treated well, roam free and have only the treatments to keep them comfortable ie buffalo-fly spray, they eat grass thats it! I buy pork products rarely as I feel awful about the way they have to live. Don’t even start me on battery (assault and battery) hens.
about 1 year ago
well done jude
about 1 year ago
I committed to being a vegetarian on 1 January 2010 because ethically I could no longer be party to the inhumane practices so widespread within animal husbandry industries today.
It’s time for significant change. Consumers must insist upon cruelty-free food production, for ultimately it is demand and the profit imperative that will dictate how our food is produced into the future…
about 1 year ago
Again, much of my opinion has been stated here already. But how can Hayley say, “There are no circumstances in which bad animal welfare would benefit the producer; therefore the underlying profit motif [sic] is a fantastic one!” Of course there are plenty of animal producers who take care of their livestock, but there are some who don’t. The evidence is there. What about all the poor battery confined chickens? How can that be ‘good animal welfare’?
I am appalled by Prof. Lean’s claim and agree that he should be put in a box to see how he likes it. That’s the bottom line. Applying the question “how would you like it if it were done to you?” would surely often elicit the answer, “not much”.
I only eat meat occasionally, and only if it is free range/organic (and am very healthy). Irrespective of whether growth hormones in animals affect human health, I am against the practice. With reference to sows in stalls and cattle in feed lots, I refuse to see how physical restriction can be condoned. At the end of the day, most animal production is profit driven and sadly many humans seem unable to realise that all animals have rights, or SHOULD HAVE! I support animal AND human rights but sadly animals do not have a voice and many people seem to consider them lower beings.
about 1 year ago
Are you Jane Wing? I don’t want anyone to get your comments confused with mine…. I’m surprised that Ruth’s system did not reject your use of “Jane,” because I was already using that screen name tied to my email address.
Anyway, it’s important that everyone know that I did not post the above… Thanks!
about 1 year ago
It’s obvious food has become too cheap, what other reason for the obesity crisis in western societies. People should pay more for animal welfare and not subsidise the meat industry because of tax policy which is what is happening now. People and animals would surely benefit from eating less and better.
The voices for the voiceless don’t stand a chance against the financial clout of the multibillions profitted by the animal exploitation industries.
Professor Lean sets an appallling standard for academia being financially so dependent on the meat industry and secondly having no regard to animal welfare which we taxpayers are paying for him to represent. And to think this man is training animal welfare practitioners!
And while on the subject of meat and meat intensive diets one can only hope that dieters will sue when health issues show up in the future.
Gert Mueller (Mr)
about 1 year ago
Great Comment Gert !!
about 1 year ago
Some 15 years ago I was able to provide pictures of the conditions inside a piggery near Scone in NSW. The horrific and totally inhumane conditions in which these animals existed was appalling and the photographic evidence was used as the catalyst for legislative change, although the effect was not immediate, nor indeed perfect. In fact from what you write I fear any benefit that was achieved may have been eroded.
I strongly applaud Coles and more lately Woolworths on their stance and will buy their products only.
Ronni
about 1 year ago
I love eating pork and it’s great that I can now buy it produced in humane circumstances and hormone free.
about 1 year ago
Even if Coles is conducting a cynical marketing exercise, I say ‘Way to go Coles’ if better animal welfare and better consumer awareness of the plight of factory farmed pigs result. Speaking of cynicism, I nearly choked on my hot cross bun this morning when I read the vet’s comment about what mother would not want to endure a little discomfort to ensure that more of her children survived. I don’t think too many females of any species would want to put their hand up for motherhood if it guaranteed a life of pain, distress, utter confinement, and denial of virtually all natural behaviours. By the way, I thought vets were supposed to love animals and care about the highest standards of animal welfare. The Animal Health Alliance, in bed with the veterinary drug companies, brings shame to their profession .
about 1 year ago
Compassionate treatment of animals and hormone-free meat for health please!
about 1 year ago
I farm beef ,lamb and grains. My style of farming is as natural as possible and I will not choose HGP treated meat.I did have an illness a few years ago that required careful food selection to allow the body to heal itself .All the alternative health professionals that I saw at that time guided me down that path and was a great learning experience.
Most of what I could say has been said so in response to your article. I do not condone animal cruelty for profit or for any other reason other than self defense. It is up to the consumer to educate themselves and vote with their wallet to get practices they don’t like stopped. According to the book of Genesis man was given the right to rule over animals and use them for food.The only moral dilemma I see is people that fight for animal rights but never seem to be too concerned about violence towards or the rights of humans.
It is obvious that profit drives supermarkets and drug companies and they will do anything to get a competitive advantage.
Not sure of Lean’s agenda ,does he own shares in the drug companies? I was surprised by the published estimate of 40% of cattle treated with HGP’s, I would have thought it was far less than that these days . Meat Standard Australia’s website tells us that there are differences in eating quality and HGP treated meat needs to be handled a little differently.
I do agree Ruth that people would generally prefer” as natural as possible”. I do struggle however with peoples ill informed concern for animal welfare but do remember my sheep and cattle roam free.
about 1 year ago
I amazed that not one person commenting on this website has fully researched the complete holistic concept of food production.
If you prefer organic please understand that it is a personal choice (of the 1st world) not an environmental one. if all the world ate organic we would require double the agricultural land, this means no rainforests/national parks etc. not to mention the carbon footprint.
Hormones are not related to antibiotics, the majority of your bloggers have a very weak grasp on science/health! The hormone level of beef is much lower than eggs or even soybeans! so vegos keep getting your daily dose!
Please try and keep your thoughts logical and on track. the current argument is about hormones in beef production not pig production and other unrelated welfare issues. Ruth, if you were truly trying to keep a logical progressive discussion you should refrain from pulling at the heart strings of your highly uneducated followers.
beef cattle typically spend approximately 10-15% of their life in feedlots. during this time they reduce their carbon footprint, reduce their use of resources, improve the quality of the beef and maintain a reliable supply for Australians and other consumers. not to mention help manage of 1 in 10 yr drought cycle which has historically resulted in unimaginable death for grazing animals. Hormones improve these processes by roughly 10%.
Animal welfare is a priority for almost everybody in the animal production industry. unfortunately there are rogue operators, like any industry.
When people in the media deliberately undertake personal crusades to influence public deceptively (either intentionally or as a result of extremely poor research on their own behalf) they are inhibiting the process of improving animal welfare in production industries.
about 1 year ago
Thanks for this one Joe. It is excellent to get the other side of the debate. But I have to laugh at your claims of ignorance. I’m the daughter of a butcher and abottoir owner, born and bred in the industry – know exactly what goes on behind closed doors, and how cattle and sheep really are treated, not to mention pigs. I am also a qualified nutritional advisor. Justifying feeding hormones to livestock based on the argument of equal levels of hormones in other food sources is scientific guff. It’s how we digest hormones and break them down in the liver that is of crucial importance to the issue of cancer and other auto immune disruptions. Taking in sources of food as Nature intended them does not do damage. Taking in hormones that are produced by drug companies and forced into delicate biological systems that have no capacity to break down the chemical compounds is still in question, even by the makers of HRT for women. To call people who don’t agree with you ill informed or ignorant is often a mistake.
about 1 year ago
“Organic…would require double the agricultural land”? Most of the underdeveloped world lives far more sustainably than we do in our 1st world country where we have money and choices, and ‘organic’ is simply a move back towards sustainability for those of us who choose to care.
about 1 year ago
Sven, what evidence do you have for your statement that the lesser developed world is “more sustainable” than we are? Define sustainable.
about 1 year ago
Many communities in countries like Vietnam, Brazil live off the land or the water in the same way as they have for hundreds of years, not taking more than they need. By sustainable I mean subsistence by individuals, and do not take into account the destruction of forests and ecosystems which is completely separate and driven by business greed for profit. We really should be asking Joe to substantiate his claim that organic is unsustainable which I am countering.
about 1 year ago
Professor Ian Lean and the other 35 veterinary scientists must take us for complete idiots if they think we’ll believe there’s no conflict of interest here.
They are also, of-course, working on the false assumption that humans need to eat meat.
Leaving aside the horrendous environmental damage from meat production, meat consumption is linked to many of the diseases now raging through mainly western populations, from heart disease to cancer and obesity.
The inhumane conditions of factory farms and feedlots are unnatural, pumping animals full of hormones (and other drugs needed to keep diseases at bay due to the intensive conditions) is unnatural.
If the humane argument against keeping animals in this way doesn’t get you as a consumer (and remember, seeing the inside of factory farms is still relatively new for many people – so cleverly did the industry keep the truth from us) then concern for your health should.
The link between meat from intensively farmed animals (routinely pumped full of growth hormones, antibiotics and other concoctions) and human disease will be proven beyond doubt (the body of evidence keeps growing) – but if I were a meat-eater wouldn’t be waiting for the science to catch up before I changed my eating habits.
Vegetarian or vegan is the way to go….or, if you still want to eat meat, make sure it’s free-range and organic. You’ll feel so much better for the change.
about 1 year ago
@ Carolyn Jones, you have made the choice to be vegetarian or vegan, fair enough, you are free to do so. However please don’t postulate your belief by using emotive dogma or unfounded emotive statements.
What & where is the horrendous environmental damage from meat production? This is a very broad statement; back it up with fact.
You have been very free with exaggerations such as “inhumane conditions”, “factory farms”, “pumping full of hormones”. Do you know what percentage of the beef herd is given hormones & at what dosage to justify the term – “pumping full”?
And again using language such as this – “intensively farmed animals routinely pumped full of growth hormones, antibiotics and other concoctions”. Are you able to back this up?
about 1 year ago
G’day Rick,
Must admit I do agree with your answer above to Ms Jones. It is extremely dangerous to use such sweeping statements, and many find this offensive.
It is always in the best interest to give actual examples, and generally one is able to find an equal balance of examples for and against.
However the challenge then becomes, what is fact and what is fiction, and how to progress forward.
As a primary producer, I like to be progressive, and find real solutions to real problems with real and positive outcomes for all producers and consumers alike.
You and I think alike on this issue Rick, thank you for your contribution, I think all will benefit the same as Tony’s posting below, excellent information.
about 1 year ago
Ruth,
Isupport Professor Lean’s suggestion that people seek all the facts before making a decision on HGP use.
You have obviously attemted to gather support for your argument by linking HGPs to other (important) animal management issues.
At least one of your claims is clearly misleading.
“They can’t move to the left or the right for their whole lives, which is why they need growth hormones.”
HGPs are administered in extremely low doses to young, healthy, actively growing animals in order to stimulate incresed growth rates, not as a feed substitute and most certainly not to exract growth from mistreated animals.
Indeed, to gain the most from HGP use, animals need to be fed a high quality ration and be kept as contented as possible, failure to provide this will negate any possible benefit.
about 1 year ago
To confuse cruelty of animals with the use of growth hormones is totally misleading.
Livestock producers are only too aware that they have a responsibility for the welfare of the animals under their care – not only from an ethical point of view, but from a production point of view. Contented animals grow faster and produce more. Stressed animals do not.
The use of HGPs is a different issue altogether. There is no science to suggest that they are anything other than safe, and beneficial to the management of animals. The EU ban has been proven illegal and not science based under the WTO rules, and the EU has been penalised accordingly.
Many vegetables, such as cabbge, contain more oestrogen that HGP treated steers, as do eggs etc.
However, their use is one of choice, and individual management practices. Producers respond to consumers.
All cattle in Australia are bred on grass, and are raised under “natural” conditions. The hysteria around “intensive” and “factory farming” is misplaced, and I would invite those who are concerned to take the opportunity to visit a farm on Farm Day and get the facts for themselves.
Consumers can rest assured that Australian producers are providing meat to the highest standards in the world, delivering to 101 countries every day, including the most sophisticated markets in the world. Our biggest market remains the Australian domestic market, and we are very proud of our record of continious improvement, and our safety record.
Celebrities are only interested in one thing – publicity at any cost – the more emotive the issue, the better. It is a pity that they have to use deliberate misinformation and the denigration of others to achieve it.
about 1 year ago
While it may be currently technically correct to say, as Lean does that “there is no evidence that feeding oestrogen and growth hormones to livestock contributes to cancer in humans” – this does not mean that this evidence is not yet to be discovered. At the relatively young age of 45 I was diagnosed with oestrogen positive breast cancer and none of the various cancer specialists I have seen can tell me what the cause of this cancer is. It is obviously caused by something (or a combination of factors) so it is not a big stretch to conclude that artificial and excessive use of hormones (including oestrogen) within my diet over the years could be a contributing factor. It is just difficult to prove scientifically.
In the name of so-called “science” there are numerous cases in history of scientific interventions that have been done with the best intentions at the time but were subsequently found to do far greater harm than good, eg introduction of the cane toad into Australia to protect the now dying cane industry, eg,
In the meantime, since the economic forces that are driving the livestock industry (including meat, poultry, diary) are far greater to increasing food production (and hence their profits), than the economic forces that are driving research into breast and other human cancers, it is unlikely we will have a sensible answer to these questions any time soon.
As a mere consumer, who has to think of my own welfare and that of my family’s and the prospect that my life expectancy may be cut short prematurely, I will choose hormone free products any day.
That is the crux of the issue for me.
I note one
about 1 year ago
Hormone-free meat? Great. Cage-free eggs? I’m there. I think they would have more takers though if they just marketed it differently. CRUELTY-FREE. Who, when given a choice, could resist?
about 1 year ago
Ruth, unfortunately it is clear you have let your initial emotions, rather than your informed mind, determine your position on these issues. This is such a hugely misinformed subject, and it is of great sadness that you, a potentially highly influential being, have come to such conclusions. Yes, to some, you may sound very compassionate and caring for animals by condemning the use of ‘HGPs…that make the cattle suffer’. Consider the following: How exactly does the use of an HGP cause cattle suffering? Do they live a life of pain? Are cattle force fed? Are they injured to make them eat? Are they beaten if they don’t? No. If you familiarised yourself with cattle you may recognise a content, happy beast from one that is discontent, hungry and constantly on the search for food.
I am extremely confident that our meat producers work with the animal welfare at the forefront of their mind; firstly because they are not the evil barbarians they are sometimes made out to be, but secondly because their bottom line depends on it! Do you really believe a producer would make more money from a beaten, mistreated animal, or one that has had the best welfare possible and has thrived under such conditions? I condemn any producer who harms their animals. There are no circumstances in which bad animal welfare would benefit the producer; therefore the underlying profit motif is a fantastic one!
I understand you have probably made your conclusions with the best of intentions, but perhaps with some more research on the topic you will be quite surprised to be convinced to the contrary.
about 1 year ago
If you believe that Coles has made these actions out of the goodness of their hearts and with great concern for animal welfare, then I’m sorry you are sadly mistaken. This is no more than a marketing ploy, a feel good easy sell that is placing more cost squeeze on farmers which then in a position of lower profitability making it harder for farmers to do what they wish to do – give full care of the animals in their charge.
Coles took the action many months ago to not to buy pork from suppliers that use sow stalls. It did not stop buying imported pork from overseas countries that still use sow stalls. This creates an unfair trading situation that favours the foreign unregulated pork & does not compensate Australian producers with lower production from lower litter survival rates.
about 1 year ago
Thank you so much Rick, as I wrote to Tony this important point has to be aired and taken up with Coles.
about 1 year ago
I vote, totally hormone free. And with space to enjoy some quality of life before it’s taken away from them for our benefit. It’s disgraceful that scientists should conceal who was funding their stance in that ad, as well. Thank you Ruth Ostrow for highlighting these important matters. Animals have brains too, and emotions, and loyalty to their young. For anyone to deny that is to forget we all emerged from the same nebulous mass of tenuous gas once upon a time..
about 1 year ago
I am a farmer that produces beef , wool and grains. I feel the issue that is being missed here is the education of city folk about farming issues and farmers about city consumers concerns.
I do agree that we can produce very good beef free of HGPs and manage the welfare of the animal without any extra cost or inconvenience it makes good sense. We must remember that sometimes it does not rain out here and to keep an animal in good condition it must be confined and fed in a feed lot so that Mr and Mrs Consumer can get a reliable and regular supply of beef.
On the pork front the sow stalls were used as they were the best system in their time for producers to reduce the death of their piglets. We are now realising that there are animal welfare issues and it is possible with technology to rear pigs in a free range system. The only problem I see is are Coles and Woolies going to demand that their imported pork products are the same?
As a wool producer we have had to deal with the Mulsing issue due to it being cruel to the lambs. Until recently it was a lot less cruel than compared to getting flystruck. We now produce sheep that are not mulsed with no extra work or cost and a lot better welfare for the animals through breeding and strategic use of pesticides.
As a grain producer we are dealing with the GM debate. I think our biggest problem here is we have not educated the consumer very well before we introduced the technology. Now we are having very emotional arguments without the facts. I will use GM grains but not unless their is a benefit to my farming operation.
Many of us farmers are working with lots of variables to get food on the tables of the consumer. There is generally a good animal welfare issue why some things are done on farms. It may not always be right. I believe the biggest issue we have is the communication from producer to consumer. We have the big retailers in between us manipulating our selling and spending patterns. It is a breath of fresh air to see the farmers markets growing around the country and to have school kids from the city visit my farm so I can explain why we do things on the farm . So all you city folk keep questioning us and we should eventually get a production system that suits all parties.
about 1 year ago
Dear Tony, what an interesting letter. So intelligent and so able to see all sides of the debate. This gives us a rare insight into a farmer who is struggling with the moral dilemma of conflicting concerns. Yet you sound genuinely compassionate to the animals you farm. Your point on Coles’ policy on imported pork is a very strong and important one, which as a journalist I will put to them. I hope everyone reads this one! Many thanks Ruth
about 1 year ago
I was a vegan for four years, and got so ill the doctors thought I might have bone marrow cancer. I added meat back to my diet and now I am much healthier than on a vegan diet. I require meat to live. People who are high minded moral vegans must start to admit that they take supplements such as B-12 to stick with their ‘ideal’ environmentally kind diet. I came to the view (and on doctor’s orders) that any diet which requires supplementation is no kind of naturally good diet.
I depend on the beef producers to feed me. I can hardly keep a cattle beast on my balcony.
The the beef producers who have posted here: thank you one and all.
To the OPs who think the taking of a life is wrong, does a lion think it is wrong to kill and eat? Does a wolf think it is wrong to kill and eat? We are animals. We eat other animals. It is just that simple.
about 1 year ago
I cannot believe what I am reading, someone who is telling the truth from the other side in regard to meat consumption.
Thank you for not being intimidated by these other posters here, thank you for having enough self respect to voice your experiences, and I do hope your body has fully recovered.
about 1 year ago
Adriana, thanks for your question: “This is exactly what I’m talking about that factory farming is more sustainable than free-range, but how, Jane, is it better for the animal? ”
The animals do not have to walk in search of their food and water. They do not starve to death or nearly to death in a drought. Fresh food and water is provided daily, and the animals in beef cattle feedlots have plenty of room to romp and play. If you know anything about cattle, they are quite happy. If cattle or sheep or pigs are not happy, if they are stressed, they do not do well. They do not gain weight. So while many people say that a profit motive leads us to mistreat animals, nothing could be further from the truth.
I think many people on here are painting animal agriculturalists as evil. Of course, we are just normal people who have a connection to the land and to our animals. We’re proud of that. It’s a shame that such hatred is demonstrated in many of the comments.
about 1 year ago
Well done Ruth Ostrow! The misery we subject animals to defies belief! It is abhorrent and cruel. Stuffing these ill-fated animals with hormones only adds to their suffering, but ultimately will harm the very people who prop up this production line. Respect for all living creatures should be the bottom line.
about 1 year ago
In response to Beef Breeder, with regard to pigs, I am not sure how any animal can be put in a cage that is so small it can’t turn around. That is no way to exist for any length of time and no amount of justification will make me think otherwise.
I agree with your comments with regard to dogs however, chaining a dog is also cruel and can encourage aggression.
about 1 year ago
G’day Carolyn,
Well you asked “with regard to pigs, I am not sure how any animal can be put in a cage that is so small it can’t turn around.” and neither do I. The piggery’s that I have seen have a rotational method implemented. Here the pigs are predominately out in the paddock, then brought in for furrowing. At this point in time, the stalls are quite large (comparison to examples given) with sows and piglets well, quite comfortable it appears. The piglets were able to go into two sections, one with the sow for a lovely drink of milk, then through the little doors and nestling down with the other piglets for a doze and a snuggle.
I most certainly have seen in the media some piggery’s that I found distressing, as a human to look at, and I will not tolerate cruelty to animals period.
As in all industries, there is a balance, indeed inregard to what is deemed cruel by one section of society, and acceptable by another section of society varies widely. I do not endorse Hallal killings – I find this appalling as an Australian producer, as do many other Australian producers in ALL livestock industries that I know, how do you all view this?
There is also another issue to that no one has brought up, goats.
How do you “feel” about the slaughter of goats? They do sound like a human child when they are slaughtered, have you ever heard this? Damn awful actually, sickening is my description of it.
BUT – have you ever seen a mob of wild goats interacting? Disgusting. The billies will repeatedly rape the nannies until they die. I have seen nannies trying to escape up hollow logs, and little caves in the side of creek banks, just to get away from a line up of feral billies raping them. When I say “line up of feral billies” this can number from 2 to 10 or more – the nanny screaming to be left alone, her young kid bitten, hit with massive horns from billies, and raped as the hormones rage through the billies…horrific scenes.
This is NOT uncommon in the wild. Animals are animals. Then where do we as humans intervene in this total barbaric cruelty of a species upon itself?
We after all, are supposedly more intelligent, do we have an obligation to protect the nannies and the kids?
Should we intensive farm these animals, and in doing so save them from years of abuse by their own kind, and ultimately a terribly cruel and agonisingly slow death after a life time of abuse?
What do we do?
about 1 year ago
Absolutely brilliant Beef Breeder; how wonderful that you are bringing some common sense to this emotive thread. Animals are animals, people are people; and despite our so called superior intelligence humans do behave exactly as those Billy Goats of yours! Heaven help us all. But back to sanity; I congratulate you on your ethical farming methods and if I ate meat I would but it from you. You are a great example of kindness to animals that many of these people will not be able to appreciate.
about 1 year ago
I have been vegetarian for 28 years after discovering the cruelty involved in intensive farming practices. I applaud your courage in speaking out for animal welfare. We need more people like you to draw attention to the plight of defenceless animals. Coles are doing the right thing and I hope this is the start of more humane farming practices. Keep up the good work!!!!
about 1 year ago
It doesn’t matter what marketing ploy you use to convince people they’re eating “humane” meat. There is nothing “humane” about taking another life for the selfish greedy reasons of taste. We no longer live in a world where we need to eat meat for survival – and even when our ancestors did live in this time, were they over-indulging in it 3 times a day, 7 days a week?? NO!! There is nothing “humane” about breeding a cow, pig, chicken, turkey, duck etc purely for the sake of killing it and making money off it. I believe there is a shift happening, and that through education and loud vegans and vegetarians a new, more compassion world will exist. I am excited to see this day.
about 1 year ago
Mandi, I dont have a problem if you dont want to eat meat, but your body does. Look at your teeth. Your body was designed, and indeed does need meat for your well being. However, we are fortunate to live in a society where you are able to purchase supplements to replace the nutrition you refuse to take into your body through natural cycle ie eating natural occurring meat.
So its not a matter of as you say”There is nothing “humane” about taking another life for the selfish greedy reasons of taste.” that is just denial of the evolutionary process – humans are meat eaters, our bodys are designed this way. However, I respect your right to treat your body the way that you see fit, and find replacements for it.
You mention “taste” could it be that you just do not like the “taste” of meat, just as many children do not like the “taste” of brussel sprouts? Something to ponder upon.
The slaughter of animals is a fact of life, regardless of ones individual beliefs. The fact is that together, society must not condone cruelty, therefore slaughter must be carried out swiftly. Surely you would not advocate an act that was not swift? I as a livestock producer find the notion of any other alternative other than swift slaughter horrifying. I happen to love my livestock, and thank them for their being to feed Australians.
You wrote, “We no longer live in a world where we need to eat meat for survival – and even when our ancestors did live in this time, were they over-indulging in it 3 times a day, 7 days a week?? NO!!”
No Mandi, you are so factually incorrect here. Please think about what you have written. Our ancestors led very physical lives. Today many members of society do not live as physically demanding lives, as such the intake of meat/poultry varies depending on your life . However, the need for meat is still necessary, and should be adjusted accordingly. Once again, you have chosen to find “replacements for meat” not really quite what your body needs, but I am sure you are trying your best to look after it.
” There is nothing “humane” about breeding a cow, pig, chicken, turkey, duck etc purely for the sake of killing it and making money off it”
Mandi, how do you make your income? Every person has the right, indeed a responsibility to contribute to the economy. We do this by working hard, making a quid, and paying taxes.
There has to be primary producers in this world, to feed “the world”. Do you consider letting people starve “humane”? No doubt you will not agree, however please consider those who believe that vegetables have feelings!?! So we stop eating vegetables, or selling them? What about fruits and nuts? Are we not robbing native birds / animals of their food sources if we gather from the wild? Alternatively, if “we” as a race of humans plant vegetables/ fruit/ nut trees, we still have to contend with those who are of the belief these food sources have “feelings”…so where to from here Mandi?
You also stated,
“I believe there is a shift happening, and that through education and loud vegans and vegetarians a new, more compassion world will exist. I am excited to see this day.”
Well, you are living in it Mandi, and all power to you, but if you dont mind, I too would like to keep the right to proudly raise livestock, so I know that they are raised correctly, slaughtered correctly (no suffering) and to feed and clothe Australians – because Mandi, I dont know about you, but when I see starving children/people, I dont like it.
about 1 year ago
Thank you, Beef Breeder, for your well-considered comments. The issue Ruth has raised is an important one, not to be addressed by those on the outer reaches of the bell curve. Most people in Australia want some meat in their diet. It is pleasing to know that there are meat producers who take pride in their calling, and more power to you. We agist a few cows on our small property. They are cared for by their owner, who has animals on many pieces of land in this area. We all get to experience a relationship with the animals and see that they’re well cared for. Companies that take a factory approach to meat production have lost their way in the world and deserve to lose their livelihood in favour of responsible producers like you.
about 1 year ago
I know the replies were supposed to be for Ruth Ostrow, but I just had to say, that you wrote everything I would want to say.. perfectly. I believe there is a shift in attitudes happening. I really wish that schools would show documentaries about factory faming and the ‘meat’ industry and slaughtering practices in general. It would turn 90% of young people into vegetarians on the spot. (Also other topics.. like the “Blood Sweat and Teeshirts” series.)
Thanks for voicing an opinion so well.
about 1 year ago
Oh what a load of rubbish! There are many children who do know where their food comes from, heck my children can go out and slaughter a beast no worries at all! And humanely – before you jump to the wrong conclusions too! This thread seems to be good at that – jumping to the wrong conclusions, and not backing their so called “facts” up.
The problem is that city slickers are too busy living in an unrealistic world to “get real”!
about 1 year ago
Much of the comment above is from a very emotive level based on a lack of understanding due to remoteness to any production system.
Beyond the abhorred act of physical cruelty; how do you know what the emotional well being needs of an animal is. Seems to me that many can only view these needs from that of a human. But animals aren’t humans, a pig is a pig; a cow is a cow. They need to be treated as each species needs to be treated not as from a human understanding that has had no day to day contact with the animal in question.
about 1 year ago
Good coment Rick and Ruth Ostrow is one of the most emotional and immature. I support the move for kind and respectful handling of animals (I have been a life-long ovo lacto vegetarian, at 60 years old, and am superbly fit) but I abhor this infantile humanising of animals and scientific ignorance that is being practiced in this column. If we want to make changes to animal husbandry practice let it be evidence-based practice.
about 1 year ago
G’day. Well, I do breed beef cattle for slaughter. My family has helped to feed Australia’s population for generations. We care for our animals, which are bred for a purpose – food.
We have not ever used HGP’s, simply because we have chosen not to. No other reason.
We dont get a premium, we sell through sale yards predominately.
I think there is a fair bit of misinformation about livestock husbandry practices. My family in the war years also had a dairy, poultry and dairy cattle, as well as sheep. The tradition continued until present day.
As better animal husbandry practices were announced, and this includes present day, we will consider using these methods. If they are not in the best interest of our livestock, they will not be used.
If they are in the best interest of our livestock they will be implemented, that simple.
These decisions take into consideration a number of factors.
The quality of life for the animal. Meaning limiting stress at every opportunity. The difference is in the temperament of the animal, they are non aggressive, and/or not depressed. Very easy to determine as their feeding is easily monitored.
I have seen free range sows eat their young, for no reason apparent to the owners. Occasional pigs will do this, as they do in the wild. We must all remember, we are discussing animals, and as such they act as they are – animals.
Our role as their human caretakers, is to try to the best of our ability to make sure all animals in our care are treated with kindness, not cruelly under any circumstance.
This is achieved more often than not, however the good producers rarely ever get a mention.
So my comment is here to let you know, that there are very successful caretakers of animals, I am one of them, and I know many.
My dislike is urbanites who have pets and do not look after them. People with dogs, who never take them for a walk, leaving them on a chain day and night, those who “de-bark” their dogs. Dogs that do not have even a back yard to run around in.
People who treat dogs as humans, and deny them their basic animal rights that is, to be a dog and act like a dog! To put clothes on them and treat them as a fashion statement sticking out of a handbag! Now that is just not normal!
Nope, give me wide open spaces, with my contented cattle, who we are blessed to care for, and in turn provide food and clothing for humans. Kindness and understanding, respect for all in the food chain of life.
about 1 year ago
What an extraordinary email Beef breeder, and I fully agree with you with regards to letting domestic animals be animals. Just come back from Los Angeles, don’t get me started on what they do to their dogs over there! You are the second to write about pigs occasionally eating their young. There are cruel and strange behaviours in all species that we don’t understand. But I am content to let Nature do her thing, whatever the motivation, and we as a species have no rights to keep any animal from their young.
about 1 year ago
As an old an unrepentant meat eater, Beef Breeder is my kind of producer. I want the animals to live as normal and stress-free a life as possible: both because I like animals and because I’m sure they taste better. And, for the second reason as well as an innate distrust of chemicals, hormones and gene manipulation (I think we are far too keen on putting our scientific discoveries into use without fully considering the long-term results) I detest the routine use of antibiotics and hormones.
I was disgusted by the advertisement signed by the veterinary professors. It was obviously sponsored by some commercial interest and it’s hardly surprising it was big pharma. Apologies to the meat industry for mentally blaming them….
about 1 year ago
We cannot condone the cruelty involved in the raising of animals to supply our meat.
All animals must be allowed to live naturally and raise their young.
Another disturbing issue is the destruction of bobby calves.
I believe most Australians would be prepared to pay more for their meat and milk if it meant the animals were treated with dignity & respect
about 1 year ago
Animals that are destined to be killed for food should at least have a chance to live a stress-free, comfortable life before they are killed. We do not NEED to eat meat and certainly not the quantities of meat we in Australia consume. Aside from the ethical question I wonder about the wisdom of using hormones to promote rapid growth. The over-consumption of antibiotics in food and medically has led to resistant bacteria and the consequent problem of finding antibiotics that will fight extremely serious infections. Will the use of hormones in meat create another future problem?
about 1 year ago
Lean is wrong. The suffering caused to animals is unethical. I am right behind Peter Singer on that one. The thought of all of those animals living in misery is horrifying. One day our grandchildren and their grandchildren are going to ask ‘How could they have done that?’ just as we wonder how people could have had slaves or employed children in factories.
about 1 year ago
A complex moral dilemma? No it’s not. We simply treat animals unnecessarily cruelly to satisfy the goal of maximising profits. Animals are not commodities. Humans are not given a moral right to act as they please just because an outcome is scientifically or technically possible. Perhaps those promoting the need for increased meat consumption by Australians need to be informed of the ‘looming food shortages’ mentioned by Professor Lean? Or could this statement simply be another ‘scare campaign’ used to fuel the argument generated by those with corporate interests ???
about 1 year ago
I am a veterinarian and have seen the misery of intensively farmed pigs and walked through huge dark sheds filled with rows of pregnant pigs. These intelligent animals are incarcerated in stalls scarcely bigger than themselves and are treated as no more than machines. They are kept on bare concrete and are unable to walk more than a step forwards and back. The only ‘activity’ available to them is to press the nozzle of their water bowl or bite the bars of their cage, over and over again. It is heartbreaking to see. These pigs are frequently lame and when laying may have their legs crushed by the pig in the next stall. The argument put forward by intensive pig farmers is that if pigs aren’t kept in stalls/crates little bigger than themselves they will crush or kill their piglets, fight with other sows and get heat stress in the sun. By allowing pigs the space, shelter and substrate to exhibit their natural behaviours and nest build, wallow, walk and play their welfare will surely be improved. I strongly support any move to produce meat more humanely and for veterinary and animal science students to be given the opportunity to see and experience free range farming and learn more about the issues associated with animal production outside of the cages. It is time for the customers to rattle the cages of industry and set these animals free.
about 1 year ago
I agree Ruth. Totally hormone free. See the revealing DVD “Food Inc”.
Animals aren’t meant to eat corn or pellets…free range. Happy families.
The problem is too many people. We have to have less people to sustain it all.
It’s totally cruel to the animals well being and cycle of nature.
about 1 year ago
We have been selling not only hormone free meat for the past 2 years, add to that growth promotant free, andtibiotic free, cage free, feedlot free, concrete floor free and confined space free meat! Completely sustainably produced meat.
A stress free life produces a better tasting meat.
Never before have farm and city been further apart. This is not by accident but an multiple pronged marketing campaign my all meat industries as they “enhanced” their production methods to increase carcass weight whilst decreasing the time to market.
With the help of our farmers it is extremely refreshing and encouraging to know there is meat produced in a completely ethical way. The next step is trying to curb the dodgy buggers (some suppliers and restaurants)whom say their meat is free range etc but is far from it!
We are a very long way from
about 1 year ago
Jane says “I am a beef producer, and the use of Hormone Growth Promotants (HGPs) is proven safe and effective. We now produce more beef using less land, fossil fuel and water than at any point in the past. That’s exciting! Good for the environment and good for consumers. It is also, contrary to what some want to falsely propagate, good for the animals!”
This is exactly what I’m talking about that factory farming is more sustainable than free-range, but how, Jane, is it better for the animal? There has to be a compromise to the animals welfare when such mass production is in place.
Also Jane infers that meat is more environmentally produced than it has ever been in the past, but what she fails to mention is how much more meat is in production and consumed then say 50 years ago.
Our global population has more than doubled over the last 50 years, from 2.6 billion in 1950, to 6.1 billion in 2000, however meat consumption soared by 5 times over the same period from 45 billion kg to 233 billion kg per year. It is expected to double again to 450 billion kg 4 by 2050, when the world population will be around 9.3 billion.
about 1 year ago
Keep at them Ruth. Perhaps we (our family) should be vegetarian, but we arn’t. We grow and kill the little meat we do eat and not only is it chemical/hormone free and I am sure a lot healthier but it tastes so much better – and most important of all it comes from stress free (I would dare say “happy”) animals. What we don’t produce ourselves we buy from an organic farmer (we don’t have pigs – for those of you that have not tasted real natural free range pork, just try it, you will be amazed!)
I am no fan of Woollies or Coles, but if they keep going in that (surprising!) direction I might one day enter their doors.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth,
I never usually comment on these types of articles, but feel that if you are compiling a selection of views on this matter I would like to add my opinion.
I eat meat, and have done most of my life. The more I understand about the treatment of animals reared and farmed for meat, the less meat I tend to eat and the more discerning I am in the meat I buy. If I had to be vegetarian, I wouldn’t mind but in the meantime I’ll buy well-reared meat far less often and accept that it will cost me more for the assurance that, say, the eggs are from free-range organic hens or free-range pigs, or grass-fed beef that does not stand in pens being grain-fed for the last months of its life. Hormones promote fast growth but it’s a nasty, cheap solution to demand that could be negated if we ate less meat anyway. I know there are arguments that the rules regarding labelling are often stretched. Tell the farmers from me that I’ll pay the top dollar for compassionately raised and slaughtered animals or else I’ll head further along the road to vegetarianism. But you’ll never catch me buying cheap and ethically compromised meat.
Thank you
about 1 year ago
Thank you Ruth Ostrow for challenging the drug-company-sponsored veterinary scientists who claim that hormones are good for animals and good for us all. We should respect the animals which are destined to provide meat for our tables. They have a right to live as natural a life as possible until it is time for them to die. Contented animals provide better-quality meat. We don’t need oestrogen and growth hormones added to the food we eat.
about 1 year ago
Thanks Ruth
What planet are some of these veterinary scientists from?, I sure wouldn’t wish to take my pet to them.
about 1 year ago
“Would you prefer hormone-free, free-range meat or are concerns about food shortages more important than compassion to animals?”
This question and your article, are misleading. I do not have to make this choice. We can feed the world and show compassion to animals.
I am a beef producer, and the use of Hormone Growth Promotants (HGPs) is proven safe and effective. We now produce more beef using less land, fossil fuel and water than at any point in the past. That’s exciting! Good for the environment and good for consumers. It is also, contrary to what some want to falsely propagate, good for the animals!
Meat is nutrient-dense, and in an era of increasing fuel prices, it is much better to transport nutrient-dense products to help feed the world. Humans are omnivores…we have teeth for both meat and plant consumption, and there is nothing wrong with the consumption of meat. We producers are very good at caring for the animals in our care and understand animal behaviour more than ever, thanks to awesome people like Temple Grandin, Bud Williams and Tom Noffsinger.
Also, you have misinformed your readers by linking the HGP issue to the sow stall issue. The use of the stalls has nothing to do with HGPs.
I do not know of any pigs that stay in small crates their entire lives, as you have painted, and I think you should have to show evidence for your sweeping statement. Many people will quote you, and it’s simply not true. Farrowing crates are used for a short period of time so that sows do not roll over on or eat their offspring. Yes, that’s right…EAT! Pigs are smart and wonderful animals, and yet, they will eat their babies. Lovely, hey?
Unfortunately, many consumers are so far removed from food production that they are easily led astray by sweeping, emotive statements, the like of which your article is full. That is unfortunate for producers, for consumers, and ultimately, for animals.
I hope you will take the opportunity to avail yourself of the facts before demeaning an entire important facet of our economy and food production sector as you have.
about 1 year ago
Thank you Jane, it is worthwhile to hear your comments, balancing a very emotional issue. The issue of HGP is linked to the needing to feed animals in feedlots and crates hormones to substitute for real food. Pigs are kept in crates by Professor Lean’s own admission although this practice has now been fazed out in Europe and to his credit Professor Lean believes it should be fazed out here. As for pigs eating their young, how very very odd they have survived as a species let alone proliferated given this bit of information.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, for Pete’s sake! Lots of animals eat their offspring, pigs included. Your sarcastic comment ‘As for pigs eating their young, how very very odd they have survived as a species let alone proliferated given this bit of information’ is very childish. Humans are cannibals at times too. Good God woman you are showing your true colours! Please do not resort to sarcasm when someone is telling you the truth.
about 1 year ago
I have no doubt you are telling the truth. But they certainly don’t eat THAT many or we wouldn’t have any pigs left. I’ve never heard of a species that ate itself to death. The point i am making is that Nature has her own way of dealing with survival of the fittest or culling in any species. If killing the older Alpha male and its offspring is what new Alpha lions or ape males do when they enter a tribe, then that’s what Nature intended. What I find unnatural, inhumane and stupid is to justify cruelty on the basis that pigs shouldn’t be eating their young so that we can eat them.
about 1 year ago
Changing the goalposts is not helpful to a sane discussion.
about 1 year ago
Thank you Ruth. It’s about time someone exposed the truth. Such treatment of pigs is unconscionable. No conflict of interest?! Pull the other leg Professor Lean! My father is a very fit 88 and has been a vegetarian all his life. Although not totally vegetarian, I only buy organic, free-range chicken or wild caught fish once a fortnight, if that. Instead of fattening up pigs to get to the market more quickly, perhaps people should cut back on meat consumption to only a couple of organic, free-range meat meals per week and look for alternative protein sources. There is so much which can be done with eggs (organic, free-range of course), cheese, tofu, beans and pulses. My concern is that current younger generations are losing the knowledge of how to combine vegetarian foods to provide the full spectrum of essential amino acids and that the disinterest and apathy perpetuated by the fast food lifestyle will result in a continuation of unethical, mass-produced animal products. The oldest man in America, a centenarian, lives on fresh vegetables and gets his protein from beans.
about 1 year ago
the so called food shortage would not be a problem if society cut down on the amount of meat it eats. People should really only be consuming meat 3 times a week, not 3 times day. Not just for the sake of animals but for their own health also.
about 1 year ago
Well done Ruth. This is a discussion that needs to be brought out into the public arena. I am sure that most people would prefer to think that the meat that they eat comes from the butchers shop and doesn’t involve any cruelty to animals that are able to feel pain and suffering or have any attachment to their young, but sadly this is not the case. Should it not also be a basic assumption in a country such as ours that one might expect the food we eat to be free of harmful chemicals and hormones.
about 1 year ago
To induce milk production I am told dairy farmers impregnate cows then slaughter their babies from one day of age. Chickens are kept in cages. Pigs held in pens without room to move. People say you can smell the fear of the cattle at the slaughter house. Hormones: the jury is out. Who knows what the risks are. But why take the risk? Animals share most of their DNA with us. They are our brothers and sisters. Well done Ruth.
about 1 year ago
Oh Ruth F, need to bit more careful with what you write – “dairy farmers impregnate cows” I thought this act of bestiality is illegal.
“Pigs in pens without room”, no only sows for a matter of weeks. “Smell fear”, surely this is a very subjective statement derived from a preconceived perception. Sharing DNA & brothers & sisters, oh Ruth that’s a rather big call isn’t it?
about 1 year ago
I think you might be confussing New Zealander jokes, with Aussies hey?
about 1 year ago
I question the calling of those 35 veterinary scientists. It is unbelievable that they can ignore and encourage the suffering of animals they have supposedly spent years of study to heal and protect.
Shame on them and shame on us for continuing to allow the unnecessary inhumane and brutal treatment of animals so that we “superior”beings can have the pleasure of eating them.
Thank you Ruth for bringing this heartbreaking situation to the attention of those Australians who would be overwhelmed with rage and sorrow if someone tortured and barbecued their beloved pet dog but can happily bury their heads in the sand and never acknowledge the unbearable suffering that has been endured by the animals that they joyously consume every day.
about 1 year ago
Ruth – I might not agree with you all of the time – but you are absolutely correct on this one – no hormones, no more cruelty. Free range animals please.
People may want to check out BLEATS:
http://www.bleats.com.au/
and the RSPCA campaign:
http://www.rspca.org.au/news/355.html
Judy
about 1 year ago
Thank you all so much for your comments so far and we appreciate hearing from those of you in the farming or meat industry who are helping us better understand your point of view. But as is obvious– 99 per cent of these respondents refuse to condone cruelty to animals or consumption of hormones which are banned in Europe. Please keep the comments rolling as I will be directing politicians and people involved in regulation of the industry to this blog. Ruth
about 1 year ago
With a limited budget on the OAP, I try and buy organic meat but if I haven’t been able to do that, I buy at Coles because of their ethical stance – no doubt a money spinner for them but all the same the meat is hormone free. Better for me and certainly better for the animials.
I also buy Free Range eggs or go without.
I’m appalled at the comments of Prof Lean – what utter rubbish; I suspect he’s a ‘consultant’ to Big Pharma.
C,mon Woolies – do the same and I’ll shop there as it’s more convenient for me!
about 1 year ago
This is a real problem in this day and age.
Unfortunately it seems meat (and dairy) cannot be more sustainable to produce AND kinder to the animal. The only way to produce meat (and dairy) that has less of a carbon footprint is to pump it full of hormones to grow (and so be slaughtered) quicker and to be kept in unstable, over-crowded conditions. That grass-fed beef may have had a happier life but all that land that’s needed to graze is arguably worse for the environment.
So if you care about animal welfare, the environment or your diet than the only way to go is vegan.
about 1 year ago
“Unfortunately it seems meat (and dairy) cannot be more sustainable to produce AND kinder to the animal.”
What a load of codswallop! Prove this madam. My herd is sustainable, and I happen, along with many other producers care very much for the well being of our animals while we are the custodians of them.
When I drive into the paddock and pull up, all I have to do is call out, and my stock come up to the vehicle. Even sniffing my working dogs on the back of the ute. No fuss, no tension and exchanging “licks” between dog and beast.
So your statement has no basis whatsoever, is is far to sweeping – maybe that was your intention, and you didnt think anyone would respond to you and call you to account on this distortion of the facts?
“The only way to produce meat (and dairy) that has less of a carbon footprint is to pump it full of hormones to grow (and so be slaughtered) quicker and to be kept in unstable, over-crowded conditions”.
Oh sweet mother of god. “carbon foot print” and “unstable” , Adriana, you certainly are familiar with the “catch phrase” words of the day are you not?
I think all you people in the cities should be walking, catching public transport – better still – there are more of “you” down on the seaboard’s – that far outnumber our livestock – problem solved – stop breathing!
Seriously though, the vegetation that is on (in my case) my rural working property, not one of these damn “hobby farmers” is more than enough to counter act any alleged “carbon foot print” I can assure you. lol – I find your comment mystifying at the very best!
” That grass-fed beef may have had a happier life but all that land that’s needed to graze is arguably worse for the environment.”
Now you have hit the nail on the head here – the word “arguably” is correct. Many farmers spend their entire working lives arguing with people who do not know our land, who have no idea of the vast eco-systems and bio-diversity on our lands. They, (departmental persons and law makers) listen to so called “stakeholders” who would not be able to survive in the bush 48hrs, and these are the people who argue that the environment, our land, our environment, is being harmed! What a load of rubbish from them!
The biggest threat to our environment, but that the LAND THAT I BOUGHT AND PAID FOR is mine. All that is on it is mine – and I am ropeable that I have to live by laws, legislation, that I do as a law abiding citizen, that kills my eco-systems and bio- diversity on my land! Laws and legislation that does not allow me to actively manage my land, my business and my beautiful bio-diversity that any one of you on here will never see – and I would never show any of you, as I dont trust the comments on here that are so unsubstantiated, it is unbelievable.
“So if you care about animal welfare, the environment or your diet than the only way to go is vegan.” and there you have it my vegan “friend” – you would place all human needs on one source of food, which our bodies need more of than what you are doing to yourself.
I respect your right to treat your body as you see fit, not of my concern, however how many supplements do you take for this? Rhetorical question really, as a poster has already said what they had put their body though on the same belief that you have, how horrible.
about 1 year ago
My partner and I stopped eating pork some time ago because of the way pigs are farmed. If we are going to eat meat, it should be a treat (nutritionally), and we should recognise that a living creature has died for us to do so. Our humanity is measured by the way we treat those creatures that are dependent apon us. If we don’t care, or choose not to know, then we are less than human.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth
I totally agree with you. Thanks for caring for animals and making an effort to change their lives for the better.
They feel pain and suffer just as humans do but are powerless to do anything about it. I can’t begin to image how horrendous their lives are, trapped with no end in site.
Please keep up the great work, it is amazing to see someone use their influence to help in this way.
about 1 year ago
PS: Looking over the comments here many of them reflect a desire for an holistic approach to animal farming – ideally fully free range etc. While in principal I absolutely support that, as a working single parent always buying top of the line free range 100% animal-friendly meat is outside my realistic budgetary constraints (I wish it wasn’t!). So, may I add I think it is important to separate out the issues here. One can look at injecting artificial sex hormones into cattle (and pork) and the intensive farming practices that sadly often accompany this practice as a whole – or just focus on the hormones. For my vote as a parent I say “ban the hormones right now” and then work towards more animal-friendly farming practices as an ultimate goal. The immediate human health risks for me, I’m afraid, outweigh the animal rights issues (sorry!)
about 1 year ago
I think it is almost certain that Coles and Woolworth’s have a cynical marketing motive for promoting hormone-free meat, but who cares if the outcome is the same and animals benefit as a result. Consumers drive changes with their dollars.
I also think schools should include field trips to factory farming enterprises in their curriculum. Children should see where their food comes from. I was takenon a tour of a pork-pie factory at age ten; live pigs went in one end and came out the other as pork pies. Made a huge impression on me. I haven’t eaten a pork-pie since and only buy free-range or hormone-free meats, and go without if there are none available.
about 1 year ago
It’s not a dilemma because as consumers we have a choice.
As one who has been involved in the rural industry at all levels since the 1950′s I see the hormone issue purely as a lesson in economics from the farmer to the consumer.
With regards to pigs in crates I witnessed the practice in Scotland during the late 1950′s. At that time best practice animal husbandry with breeding pigs insisted on sows being housed in birthing pens just prior to having piglets, and remaining in the pens until the piglets were weaned. This was done precisely for the reason stated by Lean and before the HGP period.
One thing that is guaranteed in present and future food production is that a vast majority of it will have to be enhanced in one form or another to meet the rapidly growing demands of an expanding world population.
Fortunately in Australia we can presently afford to make a choice of what to buy, thanks to conscientious farmers and a vigorous wholesale and retail market environment.
PS Congratulations on producing one of our favourite weekly newspaper columns.
about 1 year ago
I think the fact that the European Union banned growth promotants some years ago now – and indeed Tasmanian has done the same – says it all. It makes logical sense to me that adding hormones such as oestrogen to food we eat, even if the amounts are small as maintained by the industry, MUST over time cumulatively increase our absorption of these hormones. When Coles launched their campaign I was utterly flabbergasted – I believed all Australian meat to be hormone free. While I have been concerned and aware for some time about the use of antibiotics in livestock, this seems a minor issue compared to processes which artificially raise the levels of reproductive we ingest. With widespread alarm at increases in rates of breast and prostate cancer, and the seemingly every-decreasing age of puberty in girls, I cannot help but wonder if this is a ticking time bomb. If, as Coles claim, the quality of the meat is actually made worse through the use of hormones, and there is ANY doubt as to the long term health implications of this practice, surely it must be stopped. I now buy my beef and pork only from butchers who can validate the source of their products as hormone free, or Coles (and increasingly Coles as their meat DOES taste better now!).
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth
Prof. Lean’s statement that there was no conflict of interest when drug companies fund the ‘Animal Health Alliance’ is ludicrous, as is his assertion that informed consumers will not support Coles’ efforts. When I witness the way our society mistreats animals, including those raised to provide us with food, I am truly sickened. These creatures are sentient beings and deserve so much better. Immanuel Kant put it well and succinctly when he observed: ‘We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals.’ Perhaps with the help of columnists like you, and organisations like Voiceless, I will live to see a situation in which animals are truly appreciated and treated accordingly.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, I couldn’t agree more. I buy my meat from farmers markets and it’s not only tastier, more tender and more humane (organic and free range), but often a lot less costly too. The argument put forward by Lean would suggest a move to vegetarianism is what society needs to save it from food shortages and lack of space, not HGP! I like my meat and find as a coeliac with a tendency to anemia that I do need it, but it’s not worth it if we can’t demonstrate some compassion.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, it’s all been said by others, but I must add my voice also. My family has an annual visit to our cabin in Jackeys Marsh, Tasmania, generally in September. It heals our hearts and souls to see calves and lambs cavorting in large green paddocks within sight of their mothers. We also see one, sadly only one, paddock that has a sow wandering free with a number of her piglets. Animals Australia have, I understand, convinced the Tasmanian Government to phase out pig breeding in crates – sadly I think this is to happen over a number of years – but congratulations to AA for all of their efforts on behalf of animals bred for meat. Just think of a new wave of tourism that could be created: tourists to visit areas where the animals are raised as nature intended. Parents could pay a fee to get close up to these creatures, and a further fee for their kids to help to collect the eggs from free range chooks. I followed in my daughters’ footsteps approximately 22 years ago to become non meat and non poultry eaters. I have cut down on seafood, and like to think that one day I will be a fully fledged vegetarian.
Congratulations, Ruth Ostrow. In my opinion, your article was an award winning one.
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth
Thankyou for promoting the case for ethics in food production, namely HGP free meat and poultry. I care little if the marketing of hormone free produce is a “cynical marketing exercise” by Coles and Woolworths if it brings about the end of animals suffering for the benefit of human consumption.
Intensive and contained farming practices have been driven by the greed of our larger food corporations, so if they are now at last seeing a need for humane practice in food production, then we will all be better off.
I am sick of the self interested scientific lobbies who feed at the trough of the drug companies’ research dollars under the guise of concern for healthy eating issues.
about 1 year ago
Guess where the 35 ‘scientists’ get their research funding! another good reason for our governments to maintain and increase research funding in this country not decrease it.
We could solve the ‘food shortage’ if the obese nations stopped encouraging overcomsumption and birth control became safer and more widespread. education in nutrition needs to be unbiased (not funded by the various special interest boards pushing meat, dairy, bread etc consumption)
about 1 year ago
The only reason there is a looming food shortage is because societies like our own are feeding the majority of the grain grown to livestock. It has been said that there is enough grain grown each year to end world hunger, and yet it is diverted from our mouths to fuel the meat industry, an industry so insidious and cruel. Also, we’re getting a little short on water too. Look up how many litres of water it takes to produce just one piece of meat from a cow and wonder why.
Coles and Woolworths are just using this as a marketing ploy, yes, but the guy from Sydney University is clearly made of very little moral fibre. How dare he speak of animals the way he does. The meat on people’s plates is purely the product of fear and oppression. People have this idea that they are better than everything else on the planet; what have they done to justify taking the lives of at least 100 other animals a year? Absolutely nothing. I hate the way the general population sees this world as nothing more than a place to serve them.
There is no such thing as ‘cruelty free’ meat, as growing another creature purely to kill and eat it is intrinsically abhorrent.
about 1 year ago
Excellent article and I fully agree with your sentiments – apart from your comment on this website that it is ‘controversial’. I can’t see anything controversial in what you’ve said. Big business with vested interests may well jump up and down and make it appear that way – but we know why they do this and should take no notice whatsoever.
about 1 year ago
“Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal.” ~Ingrid Newkirk
http://www.liveexport-indefensible.com/
“Australia exports millions of sheep and thousands of cattle each year to the Middle East where there are no laws to protect them from acts of cruelty.
Seven separate investigations by Animals Australia in the Middle East have documented terrible abuses of Australian animals. Sheep are regularly bought by individual buyers for home slaughter. They are trussed with rope and shoved into car boots in a region where temperatures are regularly above 40°C in Summer. In abattoirs and private homes sheep face a terrifying slaughter, as their throats will be cut whilst fully conscious.
Millions of people in the Middle East believe that Australians approve of their treatment of animals due to our willingness to export them to their country.
Rather than inspiring much needed change, we are reinforcing long-held beliefs that such cruel treatment of animals is acceptable.”
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/issues/
“Most Australians are appalled by animal cruelty, yet are unaware that their supermarket purchases support one of the cruelest industries in the country.
Australia’s pig industry has been adept at keeping its secrets, knowing that many Australians would refuse to purchase pork, ham and bacon products if informed of the cruelty pigs endure in factory farms and during the slaughter process.
Pregnant pigs can be kept for their entire 4 month pregnancy in a tiny metal stall not much bigger than the size of their bodies. Nursing mothers are similarly confined. Unable to interact with their babies they watch helplessly as their piglets have their tails cut off and teeth clipped without pain relief. Male piglets are castrated without anaesthetic.
The ability of these intelligent and sensitive animals to suffer is no different to the family dog. Despite this, consecutive governments have provided legal exceptions to pig farmers to prevent them from being prosecuted for animal cruelty so that they can maximize their profits.”
The information is out there, the choice is yours.
about 1 year ago
George, Can you back up what is in the quote that you start your comment off with? What is the level of antibiotics and pesticides in meat in Australia? This is a known figure as all meat is regularly tested. I’m quite certain that instead of being “laden” that any traces found are below the acceptable levels. “Corpse”, rather emotive term for a fresh carcass stored in a chiller & then boned out into cuts of meat. “Tortured animal” are you applying that there are any people systemically taking pleasure in causing pain all the days of the life of animals. I think not this entire quote is appalling and insulting.
about 1 year ago
I agree with Rick.
Sir, you indeed have insulted me! How arrogant of you! Who have you fed lately, who have you clothed lately?
I love my animals are care for them, guard them against all within my power, they are bred to feed Australians!
We are grateful for the animals that we raise – and make sure, right to the end of their lives, that they are treated humanely.
But Sir, they are animals, as such are also a food source, they are not human!
I suggest you head to the New Guinea High Lands and look for a remote tribe who indulges in cannibalism (as on SBS documentry) then we will see which meat your conscious lets you live with!
Good day to you!
about 1 year ago
Ruth thanks for an excellent article. The driving factor in the campaign to feed oestrogen and growth hormones to livestock is financial i.e. profits. Drug companies will market these products to primary producers on the basis that inventory i.e. livestock will turn over faster and thus shorten the operating cycle. This will reduce their costs and quicken cash flow. The value of their livestock will increase as animal weight increases, resulting in greater cash flow and profits. Consumers, once more, will bear the risk of a properly untested and unproven product as happened with pregnant women and cigarettes. It will take years to confirm whether these drugs are safe or unsafe for human consumption.
about 1 year ago
Hormones used for chickens in Europe a few years ago were linked to male infertility due to increases in oestrogen in males.
about 1 year ago
Kay, would you mind to link to the study?
about 1 year ago
Kay, yes please a credible link to this and any other documentation to verify this would be terrific, accurate information is power to us all, I look forward to the links.
Thank you
about 1 year ago
I would like to believe that the meat that I do eat, is from animals that have lived a relatively happy, comfortable and drug free life. I try to eat far less meat than I may have in the past. I am willing to pay more for such meat (as I do for free range eggs) but suspect some of the exorbitant margin currently charged for ‘organic’ produce is a false reflection of the cost of production.
We should also consider ‘puppy farming’ similarly in the pantheon of our cruelty to animals.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth – I wish to request range free for all animals … if we must eat meaty beings. I thought Woolies and Coles had agreed to phase out caged pigs – and so they should – what a discusting way to rear an animal – and what an excuse – they roll on the babies – well if they had enough room and were lovingly monitored they wouldn’t roll on the piglets. Veal is another issue as well as baby goats whipped off their mums so they give more milk – all a bit sad but at least most goat herders have empathy for the orphans and try to appease the little babies. If farmers provided happy pastures and quality life for their animals we woud all be happier – and if we could all be weaned off meat and find substitutes in veggies it would be a happier world. The brain is an amazing thing – we dont visualise the slaughter of lambs as we eat our lamb cutlets, we dont think of pigs red raw from bashing against the sides of the small cages, we dont think of the trauma of cattle lined up waiting to be excuted. Let’s not get into the disgusting blood lust Asian markets where fish and poultry, dogs and animals are tortured daily Perhaps we need more graphic advertising to convert us into vegos … thanks for making some space available for a good whinge … always a reader of your column – Marilyn from Red Rock – yes we’re still here.
about 1 year ago
Marilyn, little bit of shallow naivety about your idea to a well-documented problem that if sows were “lovingly monitored they wouldn’t roll on the piglets”. Have you any idea of what would be the time & wages involved in motoring every sow 24/7. I don’t know if consumers are prepared to pay for such a dramatic increase in the cost of their food.
You call for graphic advertising to convert people to vegos. People should have the freedom of choice using factual information not fanciful misinformation to convert people to your lifestyle.
about 1 year ago
I recently adopted a vegetarian lifestyle, mainly because I didn’t feel like eating meat anymore. I was surprised how relieved I felt. I could read about pigs, cattle and sheep without feeling guilty anymore. I started to research vegetarianism and was shocked when I read “The China Study.” For years I have followed health issues in the common media, but I had never heard of what it found, namely, that the more animal protein you eat, the sicker you are. On the spot I decided to become vegan. I can only wonder why such information is not prevalent in our society when there appears to be such an interest in promoting healthy lifestyles and avoiding the cost to society of so much illness.
about 1 year ago
Thank you all of you! Tell everyone you know to comment here and let’s get a letter of protest together which I will compile from your comments, and one to send to Coles supporting its efforts.
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth, Thanks for the article. It is to me a no brainer, of course meat should be hormone free!!!!!!!!!!! I think those vets should be ashamed to call themselves vets. They should be disbared from their profession. I am a meat eater, but only eat organic meats. I am totally against any form of factory farming. At least I can be satisfied that the animal that was killed for me to eat , had a good life and hopefully was killed humanely. More articles like this in the mainstream press may awaken more people to how animals for food are treated. All the best to you, and happy pesash if it is not too late!!!!!!!
about 1 year ago
David, there is no such thing as hormone free meat… or hormone free food, for that matter.
My family has a “factory farm” and our animals are well treated and cared for… even the wildlife benefits from our farm. Water and feed provided by us cares for them in times of drought as well.
I believe that people should be able to engage in any form of production they want, but just because it says “organic” doesn’t mean that the animals were treated better, or that the end product is more healthy or safer than conventional products.
Sometimes people don’t understand when they are victims of great marketing campaigns.
about 1 year ago
Ruth,the cruelty needs to be made transparent; seen and heard. The marketing of meat produced under cruel conditions should show the reality of the animal’s misery, as well as the potential repercussions for the consumers. If the tobacco industry is required to warn of potential harm, why not the meat industry?
about 1 year ago
Congratulations Ruth to you and others for raising this important issue. I turned vegetarian after watching horror shows on the ABC on factory farming of animals and also attending a lecture organised by Brian Sherman. Robyn
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth,
Thank you for airing this important subject.
There need be no conflict between human need and animal welfare. Just a 10% reduction in meat consumption in the West would lead to a significant reduction in hunger in the Developing World. See for example the deprivation of Central and South American communities of grain to satisfy U.S. demand for grain-fed beef.
I am afraid human greed (for both dollars and rich food) are at the bottom of this problem. This, together with the irrational fear of not getting sufficient protein in our diet unless we stuff ourselves with as much meat as possible, a fear created by people whose motivation is mixed at best, have led to the present practice of terrible cruelty and environmental vandalism which manyof us have become insensitive to.
There is much evidence available now to show that we can live a healthy life consuming a lot less animal protein than we in our wealthy society presently do.
All the best,
George Baumann
86 Mort St.
Balmain, N.S.W. 2041
(02)9555 7314
about 1 year ago
M&G, It doesn’t ring true a about a reduction of meat eating in the west would solve hunger in the developing world. You sight grain production in Central & Southern America. Well this would only ring true if the US were importing grain from these countries to feed animals in the USA. I don’t believe that they do. Besides the likes of Brazil had the greatest meat consumption in the world.
You talk about “terrible cruelty and environmental vandalism”, this is a very sweeping statement; can you tell me where this is occurring? What evidence do you have of environmental vandalism?
about 1 year ago
I commend Coles for promoting hormone free meat. Animals have as much right as humans to a stress free life. I feel strongly anti to inhumane treatment of animals.The end never justifies the means.
about 1 year ago
I Commend Coles for promoting hormone free meat. animals have as much right as human to a stress free life. I feel strongly anti to inhumane treatment of animals. the end never justifies the means
about 1 year ago
Thankyou, thankyou. After seeing a programme on the life and death of commercially kept sows and their young in Australia and those kept for eating, selling and bartering in the Highlands of Papua New Guinea, I know, as a pig, where I would rather be! I haven’t eaten pork since then. Those poor Australian raised pigs. I have not been able to eat veal either since I found out about the way calfs are raised commercially to keep their meat pale. Hormones for cows are beyond the pale.
about 1 year ago
Good on you Ruth. We need people prepared to bring this issue to the fore. Please no hormones, no additives, no genetically modified foods. Watch “Food Inc” and “The Future of Food” to see how current agricultural practices in the US have created disastrous effects. We need to get back to small, mixed farms and pay our farmers a fair price for the produce. If we eat seasonal, local produce it would be less expensive anyway. And the upside is we would all be healthier and happier including the animals!
about 1 year ago
Firstly there are people out here raising free range pigs, grass fed hormone free beef etc. Make the effort to support them.
If it costs a little more eat a little less.
The only people who really need us to have hormones in our food are those selling hormones. (Not just meat they are also in fruits.)
Graziers are always lamenting the reduced carrying caacity of their properties compared to Grandpas day. But the animals they are running today are bigger and produce more milk. wool or meat so they can’t run as many. Are they really making more profit by using hormones or are they just making a bigger turnover?
about 1 year ago
G’day Wendy,
In regard to this below.
“Firstly there are people out here raising free range pigs, grass fed hormone free beef etc. Make the effort to support them.
If it costs a little more eat a little less.”
Yep there are, but Wendy, who do you think get the extra $’s? Its not the producer mate, never is.
Look, I am really not sure about this statement either, I dont think it is correct.
“The only people who really need us to have hormones in our food are those selling hormones. (Not just meat they are also in fruits.)” Where are all the peer reviewed papers stating that HGP’s are bad? I dont use them, but i am not convinced that the whole truth is being portrayed on this article to be frank.
Then you wrote,
“Graziers are always lamenting the reduced carrying caacity of their properties compared to Grandpas day.”
Wendy, thats just not true! Our carrying capacity is fine – the problem is the bloody greens are locking our PRIVATE land up with things like Native Vegetation, Threatened Species, Regional Ecosystems, Wild Rivers Legislations just to start with.
The problem is with these laws and legislations is that there have been decades of ecosystems built on and around the management of private land – animals and humans adapt as in the owners with native and non native species, but the laws are man made, and as such are reducing the area of PRIVATELY OWNED LAND and some of these laws are KILLING OUR WILDLIFE as landowners we are not permitted to actively manage the land!
Damn greens, killing the wildlife on my private land, give me the shites! Taking my “name” as conservationist, who do they think they are, damn fraudsters they are!
Meanwhile, primary producers like me, are having to watch our land use that we paid for be reduced, watch our wildlife die, watch our livestock area be reduced, and then see an add on the telly of starving people, and greens saying how bad farmers are. Bloody hell! When are people going to make the greens stand accountable for what they are doing to the “food” industry? Hmmm???? (yep, I am a bit cranky about this !)
Wendy, you said,
“But the animals they are running today are bigger and produce more milk. wool or meat so they can’t run as many.” Sweetheart, no, that is just not right.
For an example, the first Angus bull – google that – you will see he was an total monster of an animal – back over 100 years ago. Look at the Angus cattle today, no they are not as big.
The second part so cant run as many, I addressed above for you – I think you are now aware that what you wrote is very incorrect, possibly an assumption there?
Now what is this comment?
“Are they really making more profit by using hormones or are they just making a bigger turnover?”
Wendy, the feed lot operators I know, try to do the best that they possibly can – and all to Australian standards, which I can assure you, leave many many countries behind. The use of hormones again, as per my request above, where are all these peer reviewed unbiased reports.
Just because I dont use them, does not mean I would not.
As for bigger turn over, or profits – well Wendy, who is going to feed the world? Did any of you hear that in Korea today, the food is running out – on ABC it was (radio) bugger me, we have to keep producing safe food, in a humane way, which the majority of us are, and feed people. Those poor hungry starving people…I feel ill thinking about them
about 1 year ago
Ruth I am just horrified by the largely untold story of the hormones pumped into our beef. I have puzzled for years about the obvious very early development of teenage girls – my own among them – in particular breast development: I blamed chicken and spent a fortune on free range poultry without realising Australian chicken is hormone free – the problem was in our beef (and some pork too). Surely this is simply money making without any real understanding of risk!!! There’s more info on this facebook page (you might not wish to publish the link but it’s got some interesting info) http://www.facebook.com/pages/Say-no-to-hormones-in-beef/114610951947194
about 1 year ago
With all due respect Liz, to big breasted women (teenage girls) all through my immediate family, well they are damn fine looking women, all in proportion – in the breast department – historical family photos to prove it.
So where did the “hormones” come from there? Obviously naturally “endowed”.
However with the male side, of the appendage “we” have and “girls” dont.
My old man used to say “get your hands off it” …maybe it was just stimulus that kept the male line going as well endowed as well..wonder if there is a study on that?
about 1 year ago
Gee Liz some of those girls I dated back when I was footloose and fancy free in another millenium must have liked their beef or was it chicken? Anyway, praise the Lord for his fine creations and pass another juicy beef steak please.
about 1 year ago
Ruth, we are moved to applaud you for devoting your whole article to such a compelling and multi-faceted issue. However you are only too well aware, I’m sure, this is just the tip of the iceberg with regards to treatment of animals and poultry bred for human consumption. As Linda McCartney once said “If slaughterhouses had glass walls, the whole world would be vegetarian”. We are vegans a year now and the more we discover, the more we are appalled at the antics of pharmaceutical companies and business working together to deceive the public in a morally questionable, if not reprehensible, fashion. The DVD titled Food Inc (based on book Fast Food Nation) and movie “The End of the Line” should be compulsory viewing in schools and generally across Australia. There is much study proving the negative effects of consuming large amounts of animal protein (ref The China Study). Anyway, what we mainly want to say is “good on you” Ruth for bringing this story to the fore. I hope your article generates many enquiries and posts on your wall. Our hearts bleed for the suffering of the animals and we continue to reject meat/animal protein in our daily lives.
about 1 year ago
Good afternoon Ruth Ostrow,
I am quite squeamish and sensitive to my own pain and suffering but not particularly sensitive to the pain of others or animals. Nonetheless the thinking part of my brain tells me that it is bad for me and society generally if we are needlessly cruel to other people and other creatures.
I became a vegetarian 52 years ago initially out of curiosity at the supposed health benefits. I am not a vegan but am glad I at least do not contribute to the processes of appalling cruelty and suffering involved in animal husbandry and meat production.
I am inclined to think towards the end of this century we will look back at the age of human carnivores with the same sense of disbelief and horror with which we now regard cannibalism.
about 1 year ago
The question that “What mother would not forego a little discomfort to ensue that more of her children survived?” is surely facetious. Being unable to turn right or left for an entire life while being separated from your young hardly strikes me as a “little discomfort”. What mother would wish her children to end up in the same state or to enter the food supply after being pumped on hormones? Our mistreatment of animals is ethically wrong. Our dependence on treating cattle with hormones to move them along faster is cruel to the animals and potentially disastrous to our health. I’m glad Coles has taken the stand they have on this issue.
about 1 year ago
I’ve just read your column, and I want to add my voice to those supporting organic, free-range, hormone-free livestock production.
The main reason I shop at Coles rather than Woolworths is because there’s a range of organic fresh fruit and veg (admittedly pretty small so far) and I can buy organic canned beans, tomatoes, baked beans, spaghetti sauce, etc, as well as organic fair-trade coffee & chocolate, and even organic popcorn, as well as beef, lamb and chicken.
I hope that rewarding those farmers who’ve adopted more sustainable and livestock-friendly practices will encourage more to make the change. Surely it will be better for everyone.
about 1 year ago
while I question the altruism of Coles I am sure drug companies are motivated only by profit.
The thought of the exploitation of animals is off-putting and to see it would probably turn me vegetarian.
Free range should be the norm even if it costs more.
about 1 year ago
Of course these decisions are made by those greedy for more. People do not need to eat as much meat as we do. It is true that more people are put off by the inhumane treatment to animals. An eight year old told me last week that “people shouldn’t eat animals there is plenty of other food to eat”.
about 1 year ago
I find that horrifying that an 8 year old can say that. Our role as adults is to teach our children a fair and well balanced facts for the necessity of raising livestock for consumption.
This is almost paramount to “brain washing” of our young.
Teach them well, and then let them make up their own opinion as adults, when they have all the facts.
about 1 year ago
I do feel deeply about this. I do want us to be compassionate and drug free in our treatment of animals. Economic rationalist approaches m ight be ok when evaluating the engineering details of building a bridge for example; it is short-sighted and inappropriate when applied to how we treat living things.
about 1 year ago
I agree with the column and think Sydney University
Ian Lean is deeply out of the loop; people (shoppers) do think about these issues, and are beginning to insist on their right to buy drug and chemical-free products when possible. Most, if asked, would also prefer not to support producers who profit from cattle. pigs and chickens raised in hideous cramped conditions. And while we’re about it let’s look hard at the live-export of shiploads of sheep and cattle to the Middle East – we should be insisting on their being slaughtered humanely here…Naming the companies involved would help here I am sure.
about 1 year ago
My suggestion, Maybe Prof Lean would like to hop in a small box where he cannot move and be fed hormones like the animals are, then he would truly be able to give his expert opinion. Good for animals, how would he know. No conflict of interest what a load of bollocks.
I find in this world at present its greed rules all to the detriment of all other species we share the planet with.
about 1 year ago
Thank you for writing such a concise article about a very important issue. I believe that when we ingest any food into our bodies we not only take in all the chemicals and substances, but also the ‘energy’ of that food. Our bodies are already in overload dealing with all the environmental chemicals, pollutants and other stresses and strains. On top of all of that, animals are sentient beings, and don’t deserve to be abused in the way they are, in ‘service’ to us.
about 1 year ago
Our family have been quick to criticise Coles for a variety of behaviours in recent months, but their stand over hormone-free meat is to be applauded. Consumers do want hormone-free produce; look at the situation that is arising world-wide because of inappropriate use of antibiotics in animal husbandry. I am appalled by Professor Lean’s comments and unsurprised to read that the ad I read a few weeks ago was financed by (veterinary) drug companies. Here we go again…. Sows being kept in cages for their entire lives is hardly the same as enduring “a little discomfort”. Pigs don’t have the cognitive skills of humans so don’t understand that their confinement is supposed to ensure more of their offspring will survive. Cages were unheard of during my childhood but we were never short of pork products because sows had rolled on their offspring. Horrific images shown on our television screens last year here in Tasmania, of the effects of cage reared pigs have done much to encourage us to search out free range pork products; they are available if one is prepared to look and support the shops that sell them.
about 1 year ago
Wendy W 23rd at 11.27am, for an informed response for the incorrect statement of sows kept in cages all their lives please scroll down the page to a series of three comments by A Stevens made on the 23rd at 8.14pm, 9pm & 10.22pm.
In regards to the use of antibiotics in Australia; the poultry industry haven’t used antibiotics in feed for decades. I believe that the pork industry is the same as the beef where I know as a fact that antibiotics are only used to cure illness. Producers are audited to meet the requirements of recording purchase of the drug, date of administration of a drug & the amount of time that animal must not be sent to market so as any trace of the drug is no longer present. Failure to do so is met with fines
about 1 year ago
Dear Ruth. Thanks for your thoughful columns. On meat – perhaps we could eat less meat and eat more of what we feed these poor creatures. Reducing our consumption in the West may benefit not just the animals! Hugs, Gordon. Adelaide.
about 1 year ago
That is an innovative appraoch Gordon. Maybe we will be able to feed the world easily when we all start eating grass!
about 1 year ago
There seems to be a fair amount of controversy over whether growth hormones in the meat they eat are detrimental to people. I’m guessing most of the pro-hormone material is from people with a vested interest. For me the bottom line is the inhumane treatment of the animals. I can’t see any reason not to pay more for humanely produced and healthy meat without hormones or excessive adrenaline. We could simply eat less meat. I certainly don’t want to eat meat from animals who have had miserable, painful lives, and I like to think that the Coles campaign is not just a cynical marketing exercise but a response to consumer awareness.
about 1 year ago
Good on you Coles for taking the lead the cruelty in the meat industry is sickening and by thougthless purchasing of these products we are supporting this cruel and barbaric farming .Awareness is the path to change ,thankyou Ruth .
about 1 year ago
ruth,i agree with you.i and most of my friends find animal cruelty abhorant whether related to food or cosmetics. we support coles and anyone who farms humanely
about 1 year ago
Hi Ruth
Thank you very much for your stand on this. It is surprising that it has been able to continue for so long but I am hoping things are changing particuarly with Coles and Woolworths taking a stand. I don’t know how people can actually be a part of such cruelty and live with themselves.
Please keep up the good work.
about 1 year ago
I feel strongly with your views and that of your previous commentators. Vets should know better but I can only state these views and buy my fresh meat, not from supermarkets but local butchers who need supporting too. Cruelty to animals and to humans is unforgivable and need not happen. We are civilized after all, aren’t we??
about 1 year ago
Your local butcher is the better place to shop for meat. Beef sold under the certified MSA grading program has no hormones & has an audited farm accreditation regime. The cattle go directly from the farm to the abattoir and don’t go through the saleyards system of selling. After years of taste testing the meat is chiller assessed by a series of indicators that have a direct colation to eating quality characteristics such as tenderness.
I don’t believe that the likes of Coles has made any of the recent changes based on any altruistic ethos of animal welfare. Nor do I believe that there is any research that has given any alarm to the use of HGP’s in beef cattle.
about 1 year ago
Zoe, my stock are sold through the sale-yards, and butchers do buy them, we have repeat butcher buyers.
about 1 year ago
Ruth – in response to your column on ethical treatment of animals in food production – I am definitely against the use of hormones and the influence of the pharmaceutical industry is concerning, as it is whenever vested interests have too much sway over our lives. I shop for a family of 4 and we have 2 vegetarians and 2 organic meat eaters (who also eat a lot of vego food). Our interests are in both the ethics and the health side of things (organic certification requires producers to abide by certain ethical treatment standards). As the mum of two teenagers, I realise that I am at my ‘peak’ shopping time with a fully loaded trolley every week. I am always looking for new vegetarian options that are not like some kind of plastic texture and without flavour enhancers. Also, recently, I saw some ham labelled ‘bred free range’ but I wondered what happened after the ‘bred’ stage. My teenage son is always hungry and while we do a lot of our own cooking from scratch (we have an ‘old school’ vege burger recipe that even has the meat eaters interested – but involves a fair bit of grating, nut-grinding and pre-cooking), I am always happy to find stuff that doesn’t require much prep. I would like to see the supermarkets get more interested in our kind of people – often my decision on where I shop is dictated by whether I have run out of a certain brand of vegetarian ‘schnitzel’ that my teenage daughter loves. It is only available at one supermarket in my usual orbit, so I go there and spend maybe $150 on other stuff. I also shop at a market on the weekend. I really appreciate the supermarkets providing things that fit with our life choices, but I want the things represented as ‘ethical’ and ‘whole foods’ to be genuine and not just a marketing exercise. We are not doing this as some kind of novelty – e.g. my husband has been a vegetarian all his adult life – he’s 50.
about 1 year ago
Every animal wants -and deserves -to live it’s natural life.
We humans are not carnivores thus we have no need of flesh in our diet (nor birds eggs or cows breast milk)
Needlessly imprisoning, mutilating and killing life -loving, intelligent, sensitive animals is cruel.
I’ve had no animal products fo 32 years so I can vouch for the fact that you don’t need animal products in your diet.
about 1 year ago
A very simple test of the statement, “humans are not carnivores” is to look at a humans jaw & teeth, this is always a dead give away to whether an animal is a carnivore or herbivore. The fact is that a human is design for a balance of both vegetables & of meat.
about 1 year ago
Jen, we have the mouth of omnivorous, we have eyes at the front of our skulls for predation and we are designed to outrun our prey by attrition. (the prey can outspent us by will be exhausted by a long chase, as with a dog pack)
Your claim is based upon your pre existing emotional disposition not the natural world.
about 1 year ago
Peter,
Like Jen, I do not consume animal products- not because I doubt that our eyes were to prey, and our diets intended to be omnivorous, but because I cannot comprehend supporting the cruel practises in place in modern society in obtaining animal products.
I agree with your statement, and believe that humans WERE intended to eat animal products. However, I do not believe that for this factor alone, humans can justify the ghastly practises occuring in modern day “farming”. Maybe Jen’s stance is emotional, as is mine, but is that so wrong? Perhaps more emotion is needed, in a world that is clearly lacking compassion and empathy
about 1 year ago
What ghastly practices?
about 1 year ago
Ruth I totally agree that our treatment of animals is dreadful. However, what about our farmers? We need them and our food producers to survive financially. There has to be further discussion and thought put in to this matter, and not only emotion. But we definitely do need to look at the bigger picture with compassion and fairness shown to all including the animals.
about 1 year ago
Hi Stew, no one is saying that farmers and workers in the meat industry need to suffer hardship either. I do know what I am talking about. My father was a butcher and later a meat producer. But in his day farmers did it naturally. Cows and sheep roamed the paddock. There were no hormones and very few feed lots. Yes, there were still brutal killing methods. As i child I heard things I never should have known about. Cruel things. But at least before death these animals lived freely and with their young. We are not in a third world country here. With so much grazing land, there is no excuse for keeping animals in such torturing conditions.
about 1 year ago
Well said, Ruth! I support your position totally on this issue, and it’s great to see that there are people like yourself who are willing to take up the fight. Good on you!
about 1 year ago
Intensive animal farming methods evolved in an effort to shave costs. So the first thing to realise is that it will cost money and almost certainly cause some scarcity (which itself increases costs) if we insist on more humane methods. But pursuit of cheaper farming has also been responsible for diseases like CJD (“Mad Cow”).
We are continually ingesting the consequences, hormones, antibiotics, preservatives, flavour-enhancers, etc. (Look at how the milk-producing of cows is artificially extended. It’s sickening.) In self-interest, if for no other reason, we should be concerned. Surely we are civilized enough to insist on humanity for animals which are, after all, bred, raised, and slaughtered for our pleasure.
about 1 year ago
When you step back from all this, who out there can prove that having 9 billion humans on Earth is better than having 6 billion? Politicians tout the continuing need for economic growth to feed growing populations but the Earth is finite. Why can’t we live within the resources it naturally provides rather than stretching resources by practices such as hormone husbandry. The motives are more likely to be about turning a quick dollar than feeding populations. Further, it is a perverse use of science to try to justify these practices as environmentally friendly when the human health and environmental effects are still to be fully determined. Whatever the motives from Coles might be, at least they have given us choice where we previously had none.
about 1 year ago
Like many contentious issues, the debate regarding the use of growth hormones in cattle has been dominated by the extremes with the reality somewhere in between. The facts are that Coles have instigated the measure not because they are good corporate citizens but because it may help claw back market share from Woolies. It is also a fact that whilst the EU has banned hormone growth promotants, the ban has been proven in the WTO appelate to be scientifically unjustified.
There is no science to prove that these hormones have any affect on human health, this is unsurprising given that a serving of milk contains 9 times the level of hormones as a serving of hormone treated beef – a serving of cabbage 710 times and soybean oil 7466 times.
Cattle are produced in feedlots because Australia’s climate does not allow cattle to reach marketable weights during poor seasons (droughts) or particular times of the year when rain doesn’t fall. In addition, consumers in both domestic and export markets actively demand grain fed beef due to the industry’s ability to consistently supply market requirements in terms of quality and quantity. Beef feedlot production is also more efficient, with less land and cattle required, less stress placed on the environment and less greenhouse gas emissions produced. Specifically, feedlot cattle compared to grass fed cattle, produce 38% less emissions per kg of beef produced.
about 1 year ago
While I do not condone animal cruelty in any shape or form, and my comments relate to HGPs, not intensive pork production I would like to suggest that a more productive approach may be the carrot rather than the stick. I am not sure how many people you are producing food for each and every day, but the vast majority of Australian farmers I work with daily are doing the best to produce nutritious, high-quality for for Australians and people around the word while caring for their livestock and natural resources. The pressure to produce more from less (land and water), while managing their impact on the environment (land, water and atmosphere in the case of methane production) leads farmers to use the best technology they have available. I certainly hope you are all encouraging your children to consider a career in science to help our farmers feed the world sustainably — because we certainly do the best with the tools we have.
about 1 year ago
Ruth you’ve done it again. Of course we all want hormone-free, free range animals. How could anyone condone the way “livestock” is treated. Even the word makes us turn a blind eye to the fate and suffering of real animals. Good on Coles!
about 1 year ago
Thanks Mary, sadly when I visited Asia recently I realised how difficult this road was going to be especially with regards to pigs. These maligned animals are more intelligent than dogs, they are highly social beings and grieve when they’re separated from their young, yet they live in crates their whole lives. One should listen to Brian Sherman founder of the animal rights group Voiceless on this matter. It makes me so sad.
about 1 year ago
I am appalled at the way the animals we eat are treated. As academic and philosopher Peter Singer says, a nation can be judged on how it treats its animals. Yes, many of us want to eat meat. But we must raise these creatures with respect, and give them dignity and time with their young. At least indigenous cultures like Native American Indians offered thanks to the spirit of the animal they had just killed for food. We, the so-called civilized nations of the world, are barbaric in comparison.
about 1 year ago
Prof Lean and the 35 Vets are the people involved in a cynical excercise. I am speechless that those trained in welfare of animals should think that it is ok to treat animals in this way, Or am I wrong about vets. I must be. To suggest that the sow would willing suffer for her off spring is outrageous. This mother isn’t given a choice. Her’s is a life of agony and grieving
about 1 year ago
Prof Lean and the 35 Vets are the people involved in a cynical exercise. I am speechless that those trained in welfare of animals should think that it is ok to treat animals in this way, Or am I wrong about vets. I must be. To suggest that the sow would willing suffer for her off spring is outrageous ,when she, poor mother, isn’t given a choice. Her’s is a life of agony and grieving. This is a very sad state of affairs
about 1 year ago
Yes Rose you are wrong in regards to the extent that you perceive suffering to be inflicted upon the sow. The sow stall which is now being phased out was used from when the piglets were very small & prone to be crushed by a sow which when you get close to one is quite a large animal. After weaning in most piggeries I’ve visited the sows are put out into open paddocks and enjoy wonderful things such as mud wallows. So it is incorrect as suggested that a sow suffers for all of their lives.
What is this “life of grieving”? How is this statement quantified? Isn’t this a human emotion that is transferred to this situation from your perspective? Do you have an insight to how a pig thinks?
about 1 year ago
I am saddened but not surprised by the Veterinary Professors view.
I think the intensive farming methods are appalling,with animals simply seen as material to produce products, with no account taken of the fact they are living creatures,feeling pain, & emotions.
As with people,who torture small animals,having no empathy,this can eventually lead to humans being treated in the same way.
As for the statement that hormones shortens the length of time the animals suffer. Give me aBreak!!
Like so many things , there may be no scientific evidence yet of ill effects of these hormones on humans,as yet, but the years ahead may change that.
Perhaps Coles are being cynical,but they are listening to their customers,&some good may come of it.
about 1 year ago
Actually Rick, you are confusing sow stalls with farrowing crates. Sow stalls are used during pregnancy. Farrowing crates are used after birth, whilst the sow is feeding her young. It is only the sow stall, not the farrowing crate that is being phased out.
Current Australian regulations permit sows to spend their full term of pregnancy (16 weeks) in sow stalls, plus another 6 weeks in a farrowing crate. They then generally spend a few weeks in a less confined space before being reimpregnated and having the whole cycle of confinement begin again. So a sow can spend the majority of her life confined in a small single cell.
Regarding your comments on pigs’ emotions. There is now substantial evidence to indicate that pigs experience emotions similar to our own, including stress, frustration, boredom, fear – as well as joy, etc. I’m forever perplexed by people trying to hold the ‘where’s the evidence’ position about animals’ capacity for emotions and suffering. Like us pigs are mammals. They respond similarly to us in negative situations (eg. confinement, bodily damage, loss of a family member) and evolutionarily achieve the same adaptive advantages by having emotions as ourselves. Surely given the evidence Ockam’s razor is on their side. If we were talking about dogs, would you still be trying to hold the same position that animals don’t experience emotions? To me it sounds like a denial of the evidence posing as scientific scepticism.
I can understand why this comes up so often, because facing the fact that the evidence would suggest animals do experience emotions and pain has some big implications: ie. their interests deserve our consideration.
about 1 year ago
Jesse, Do animals respond to their circumstances, of course. Do they respond just like humans, no. Interesting that you bring dogs into the debate because the biggest cause for negative behaviour in pet dogs is caused by people treating them on a human level not as what they are; a pack animal.
For informed comment about the pork industry please scroll down to three comments made by A. Stevens on 24th April 8.14pm, 9pm & 10.22pm
about 1 year ago
Rick,
“Isn’t this a human emotion that is transferred to this situation from your perspective? Do you have an insight to how a pig thinks?”
You say this in response to the comment- yet do YOU yourself have an insight into how a pig thinks? How is it that your feel that you can make definitive and closing statements, when in reality, you are in no more authority to state how a pig “feels”. Are you a pig yourself? Have you lived through the experiences that they do, before being cruelly butchered for human consumption?
I believe that logic determines that a pig indeed thinks and feels deeply. By no means am I saying that they are of the same intellect- but does the fact that they scream, squeal, and fret not convince you that perhaps they grieve?
Before you try to find errors in the comments of others, perhaps consider to substantiate your own. Until I hear from a pig itself that they do not feel fear or pain to any significant extent, I am not convinced.
about 1 year ago
Such animal cruelty should be illegal. I felt disgusted and sickened by the details of the pigs being confined in such a manner.
I personally choose not to eat meat. That is my solution to animal cruelty in meat production for human consumption.
about 1 year ago
Fair enough Linda, I respect your right and your opinion. However, what about “me”… I do everything right in my animal husbandry, love my livestock, and care for them from the day they are born till the day they leave my property.
I refuse to let them go to Hallal sales, as I as a beef producer believe the methods of slaughter are damn cruel –
So many other producers who act responsible like myself, and take pride in our stock care are penalised for doing the “right thing”..gee, makes a lot of sense doesn’t it? (NOT!)
about 1 year ago
I certainly hope GoMo that you take advantage of FarmDay during May http://www.farmday.com.au/ so you can witness firsthand how well Australian livestock producers treat their animals and respect the service they provide us with.
about 1 year ago
Not sure where you are coming from, Go Mo. Peter Singer’s ideas can be taken with a grain of salt. I have read his work and his “ethics” are not grounded. If you want to take an ethical position re the consumption of any food stuff, you can only begin with the place of mankind on the evolutionary tree. With the possible exception of some bacteria, every living thing eats other living things in order to survive. Humankind are omnivores – we evolved eating both meat and plant foods (like wolves, bears, pigs and many other animals). Singer says being a vegetarian is the only ethical position. I don’t know how he (or anyone else) can say the life of a chicken is worth more than the life of a lettuce. On what basis? We are all there on the tree of life. So there is no reason not to eat meat and no reason to confuse meat eating with issues such as hormones in food.
You refer to the practices hunter gatherers. Many hunter gatherers observed certain practices when they killed an animal – thanking the animal for the meat it provided, etc. But it was not a universal practice. Many people who engage in recreational hunting today – people who take deer, ducks, etc for meat – show similar respect for the animal they have taken. I would say that they are more ethical in their behaviour than those who buy a steak – hormone fed or free-range – from the supermarket. At least the hunter takes responsibility for the meat that he or she eats. But I would bet there are not too many here who would see it that way. They have opinions, but no knowledge to underpin those opinions.
The problem is that the supermarket has isolated us from food production and processing. Many feel uncomfortable with the facts of livestoock raising and processing in particular. I say let them feel however they want. But don’t go inflicting their ill-informed views on others.
I don’t think hormones, etc should be necessary. But I don’t think the 6 billion plus people on this earth are necessary either. Unless someone bites the bullet on that one, most of them are not going to be fed without the use of hormones and other additives. And that is a fact.
about 1 year ago
I find this a comment that has some depth of thought to it.
Hope you have taken note Ruth.
about 1 year ago
“I don’t know how he (or anyone else) can say the life of a chicken is worth more than the life of a lettuce. On what basis?”
Huh? Are you suggesting that the ethical implications of kicking a chicken would be no more notable than those of kicking a lettuce? Doesn’t the fact that a chicken has a nervous system, the capacity to feel pain and would run away from you if you tried to hurt her count for anything?
I agree that we should respect all life (plant and animal) and so should try to avoid causing unnecessary harm. But animals’ capacity to suffer seems to me good reason to take into account their interests to avoid such suffering.
about 1 year ago
Mahatma Ghandi said “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”. There is no – repeat – NO excuse for the way crated pigs, crated hens, feedlot cattle and any other caged animal is treated. Those of us who have never been imprisoned do not want to be: why are those who insist on animals usually free to roam be confined in cells? Disgusting, inhumane, barbaric and uncivilised. The government must pass laws ensuring such practices are abolished. Those who worship the dollar and deny freedom to our fellow creatures deserve derision. Organic farming is profitable and those who wish to eat meat need to vote with their purses: either buy organic or refuse to buy meat from animals cruelly treated.
about 1 year ago
I fully agree with everything Kay Patton has said. I would like to add that this planet would be a much better place if we all could be vegetarians. I have tried, but unfortunately my body seems to require meat.
The argument that we need more meat because we have more people hits one of the biggest taboos in the world:
this planet has about 5 billion more people than is healthy for it. I do not have a solution for this situation, but apparently nobody else has one either.
about 1 year ago
I noticed Professor Lean claims there is no evidence that feeding oestogen and BGP to livestock contirubtes to cancer in humans but makes no comment about health issues other than cancer. There are studies that link meat consumption with early puberty and increased risk of heart disease and osteoporosis. It’s probable the real link is with oestogen and HGP “enhanced” meat!
And then of course there are the animal cruelty issues – Coles and Woolworths may well be involved in a “cynical marketing exercise” as Prof Lean claims but in taking this initiative they are responding to, as distinct from ignoring, the real facts – including an increasing public awareness , and intolerance, of the very real cruelty involved in high volume, low time, meat production.
about 1 year ago
Heather, Can you find the studies that link meat consumption to early puberty? I am aware of studies that show that improved food nutrient is said to be the reason; that is a balance diet of meat vegs, eating to the food pyramid and the nutrient retained in the food presented on the shop shelf.
With the use of the word probable with inferring that “real link is with oestogen and HGP “enhanced” meat” it is more like a wild guess especially when studies have shown that there is more oestogen in vegetables than beef treated with HGP’s.